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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I am looking at a church that originally had non grounding type receptacles. It has been remodeled a few times over the years. There are now a majority of the receptacles in the building with grounds. The service still has no grounding electrode conductors. There is city water in copper available. There are no ground rods driven. The service comes into a 400a disconnect. After this, there are 4 sub panels and a disconnect. All fed from the secondary lugs of the disco. All grounds and neutrals are tied together in all sub panels. It just goes on and on. They asked me to do a visual inspection of the electrical system at the request of their insurance company. I don't think they understand what kind of a mess this is going to be. I am only providing information at this point. I was just hoping for some practical guidance on how far is too far in dealing with an old system and bringing it up to a safe level. I was just expecting to find a couple doubled up breakers and some missing ko fillers.

I will share some pics:
 

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I don't see a problem, separating EGC and grounded conductors in panels is no big deal. And adding grounding is done all the time. Every time I upgrade a service, I have to do this.
 

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It's always the same thing @ churches Btharmy , all the flock's helpy helpertons just can't help helping themselves into electrical conflagrations of satanic proportions....:no::whistling2::laughing:

a little levity reminds me of your dilema>

~CS~
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
This is the actual wording from the insurance company. What is your take on what they might expect as far as the extent of the repairs? The last sentence is obviously not practical in any situation. We would all be broke if every home or building we own is required to be brought up to current code every time it changes. That is the purpose of the grandfather clause, yes?
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
I don't see a problem, separating EGC and grounded conductors in panels is no big deal. And adding grounding is done all the time. Every time I upgrade a service, I have to do this.
Did you look at the pictures? The service drop is bricked into the wall along with the attachment point. The 400a disconnect is feeding 5 loads from one set of lugs. The secondary of the 100a disconnect is feeding parallel #6 conductors with a #10 (red) equipment ground. The list is never ending so far and I have only inspected the service and distribution system. No branch circuits, devices or utilization equipment has been inspected yet.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
It's always the same thing @ churches Btharmy , all the flock's helpy helpertons just can't help helping themselves into electrical conflagrations of satanic proportions....:no::whistling2::laughing:

a little levity reminds me of your dilema>

~CS~
I like flat rate but jobs like this really lend themselves to t&m in my opinion. I'm sure you would agree. If someone has any idea how to flat rate a train wreck like this, I am all ears.:blink:
 

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btharmy said:
Did you look at the pictures? The service drop is bricked into the wall along with the attachment point. The 400a disconnect is feeding 5 loads from one set of lugs. The secondary of the 100a disconnect is feeding parallel #6 conductors with a #10 (red) equipment ground. The list is never ending so far and I have only inspected the service and distribution system. No branch circuits, devices or utilization equipment has been inspected yet.
Then walk away, I don't think with that attitude the jobs for you.
 

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Saw something like this last week, (no GEC and three prong plugs throughout). Couldn't blame it on grandpa; the church was built in 1984.
Figured the EC must have seen the inspector coming, ran inside, locked the doors and heralded the ancient rite: SANCTUARY!!!!
 

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It looks like the building is in EMT. What am I missing here?
Does something need to be cleaned up at the service and maybe the panels need to have the grounds and neutrals separated?
I don't see a problem with the branch circuits.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
jrannis said:
It looks like the building is in EMT. What am I missing here? Does something need to be cleaned up at the service and maybe the panels need to have the grounds and neutrals separated? I don't see a problem with the branch circuits.
Most of the conduit serves as a sleeve for the romex running either above the ceiling or below the floor to get to the panels.






 

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I am looking at a church that originally had non grounding type receptacles. It has been remodeled a few times over the years. There are now a majority of the receptacles in the building with grounds. The service still has no grounding electrode conductors. There is city water in copper available. There are no ground rods driven. The service comes into a 400a disconnect. After this, there are 4 sub panels and a disconnect. All fed from the secondary lugs of the disco. All grounds and neutrals are tied together in all sub panels. It just goes on and on. They asked me to do a visual inspection of the electrical system at the request of their insurance company. I don't think they understand what kind of a mess this is going to be. I am only providing information at this point. I was just hoping for some practical guidance on how far is too far in dealing with an old system and bringing it up to a safe level. I was just expecting to find a couple doubled up breakers and some missing ko fillers.

I will share some pics:
A way to cover your buttt AND get the job is to invite the inspector for that area to go along. His input would be very valuable. If the "CHURCH" people want a quickie inspection at your risk you should walk away.
 
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