[Mike D]

I have An electrical inspector telling me that the I am not allowed to use an old work box on a new construction job. I have not installed a box, I have a wire looped through a wall for wall lights that have been spaced or located exactly.

This is common practice for bath wall lights. We are doing the same thing for the kitchen island lights and the stair we'll wall lights.

Looping the wire so that we can mark exact location and cut hole on trim and install proper box and fixture. I will remind you here that he has written on red tag that remodel boxes can not be used in open walls. I don't have a box there yet. It may end up being a pancake box or a fan brace. How foes he know?

He failed me for not having a box on rough in. We went back and installed a round box on the end of the loop. Assuming we would remove this and install as usual on trim.
Now he is telling me that I will be required to remove the "excess" wire and secure the cable.

I am at a loss.



1. Are remodel boxes allowed in a new construction job per nec? 314.23c?
2. Is it not nec compliant to have a loop of wire in wall or ceiling, without a box and stapled according to 334.30. I am asking for a rough in inspection here, not a final. There will be a box prior to completion.

 

[480sparky]

Ask for a code reference.

 

[papaotis]

ditto!

 

[Mike D]

I asked for code, he is trying to use 110.3 What a joke.

 

[Pete m.]

I asked for code, he is trying to use 110.3 What a joke.

Are the boxes going to be installed in a wall with a fire resistance rating?

If they are the UL white book requires the boxes to be fastened to the framing members.

Secondly, if the boxes are intended for the support of a luminaire and the boxes are supported from the building finish they are only permitted to support a fixture weighing not more than 6 pounds.

Short of the two things mentioned above I can't find an NEC reason that the boxes cannot be supported by the drywall. This may sound crazy, but have you looked at the installation instructions for the boxes? The installation instructions ARE part of the listing.

Pete

 

[NacBooster29]

What does he require if you want to install u.c. lights?
Or leave a whip for a strip light after finish?
Sounds like a clown

 

[480sparky]

I've also heard of inspectors disallowing box extensions on new construction.

 

[Mike D]

There will not be lights installed on a remodel box.
These are not in a firewall.

The instructions or specs do not indicate either way.
I have reached out to the manufacturer (p&s), they are having their engineer/ul people look into it. They have verbalized that this has never been brought up before.
I have also located a letter from a ul engineer on the subject. It seems that this has come up before with remodel cans vs new construction cans. The letter states there are no differences between them.

I will add that I am being failed for "not allowed to have old work boxes in an open wall".

I say again, there are no boxes installed at this point. There is simply a loop of wire where they lights or outlets will go, once we have specifics from homeowner, on trim.

I am meeting him on site tomorrow, should be a fun one.

 

[zen]

We have the same problem here. Often these fancy bathrooms have decorative cabinets around the his or her sink and you will never get the location right. We had to run 1 switchleg to the general area ending at a pancake on a stud. Then inform the builder were gonna make a hole. It become so common they would cut out a large section like half a sheet or more of rock . We d do our thang then back goes rock then cabinets then mirror. In the kitchen we had to single wire all the oc and uc lights from a jbox up high or down lown and the fixture was acceptable as make up box. Good luck

learning to learn

 

[480sparky]

I haven't roughed in a box for a vanity wall-light in years.

 

[zen]

480 thats because the inspector knows you can make lights work without wire and if u did rough in a wall light it would only be so the inspector can see how electrcity works

learning to learn

 

[chicken steve]

Use of of these>

~CS~

 

[chicken steve]

The ahj would be better off busting on 314.27(A)(1), and you'd be better off providing a cut sheet for the box>>

https://www.platt.com/CutSheets/Legrand/PS_C1-18-WAC_PDF.pdf

most old works are rated for 20lb's ....


~CS~

 

[Mike D]

I met the inspector. It is his position that 314.23c "finished surface" is defined as completely finished on both sides. He stated that an old work box cannot be used in any application that has an open wall, as that is only 50percent finished.


So that is the reason he is failing job.
He stated that if they see a remodel box installed on the job during trim out that they would fail job and make us cut rock and use structure mounted box.

Unreal.

I have sent a request for review the interpretation to the chief inspector.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

The only way he could possibly get you is on the specs of the sheetrock which used to say that nothing should be supported from the rock alone. This, I am certain, is a legal disclaimer.

 

[electricmanscott]

I met the inspector. It is his position that 314.23c "finished surface" is defined as completely finished on both sides. He stated that an old work box cannot be used in any application that has an open wall, as that is only 50percent finished.


So that is the reason he is failing job.
He stated that if they see a remodel box installed on the job during trim out that they would fail job and make us cut rock and use structure mounted box.

Unreal.

I have sent a request for review the interpretation to the chief inspector.

Reason 6527 to hate inspectors.

 

[chicken steve]

I have sent a request for review the interpretation to the chief inspector.

been there, done that, and when over the chiefs head to the state board after 6 months of inactivity

in my case, there were a lot of zero's involved, in yours it's the cost of the box i've posted

power plays often are about deeper pockets , not right/wrong Mike

~CS~

 

[99cents]

I haven't roughed in a box for a vanity wall-light in years.

I like that idea. Thanks .

 

[480sparky]

I like that idea. Thanks .

I just leave large loops in the wall. Usually, the HO has no freakin' clue what they want for lights at this stage of building. Here's a single vanity bath. One light, or two? Above the mirror, or next to it?

Then, when the HO finally decides what they want (which won't be until well after the rock is up!), it's just a matter of putting in some old-work boxes.

 

[99cents]

I just leave large loops in the wall. Usually, the HO has no freakin' clue what they want for lights at this stage of building. Here's a single vanity bath. One light, or two? Above the mirror, or next to it?

[/IMG]

My interior designer would kiss you for this tip... and that's a kiss you would enjoy .

I guess I will take it on your behalf...

I assume you leave the staples loose so you can pull on the slack?