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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Well my favorite POCO did it again....this time it directly affects me. :)

The underground feeder for the 4kv circuit serving my palatial estate (and 1,625 other customers) blew up yesterday morning at 9:22am. The power has been out since then.

I saw them pull the damaged feeder out at 9:30 last night and we were supposed to be back up by 9am today....wellll.....

Latest update before this post now says 3:00pm today....

HawthorneOutage
Alert Note608231
Estimated Restoration TimeDecember 16, 2013, 3:00 pm
Last UpdatedDecember 16, 2013, 11:13 am
Start TimeDecember 15, 2013, 9:22 am
Customers Impacted1626
CauseEquipment Problems
Crew StatusWe are in the process of completing repairs.
Additional InfoNot Available
(BTW it said the same thing on crew status at 6:30 last night):rolleyes::whistling2:

I gave up, went to Harbor Freight and bought one of their 4kw "Predator" gennys....seems to work ok but they LIED big time about the noise...it's supposed to be quiet ("70db") but it is just as loud as any other cheap generator. It was only $299 and has a standard 2yr warranty....we'll see how it holds up.

I'm using it now to get internet and run my fridge, but most of my food was lost already (ALL of the frozen food is trash.)

Anyways, will be interesting to see if/when they can get it up again. :laughing:

Cue MTW and BBQ with the drama remarks...:laughing:
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
Update:

Just talked to a crew who was outside my building disconnecting a capacitor bank...

They tried to re-energize the feeder at around 6:30am today, and another (different) section of the cable blew up. :rolleyes:

They are now bringing in a generator to temp to the HV lines to get as many of the customers back up as possible.

Which means we'll have another (hopefully brief) outage as they switch back from the genny to the normal feeder.

The saga continues..:)
 

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Isnt the 4 kv section looped? Don't they have jumpers on the truck?

They can just open the disconnects at the pothead while they close or jumper from another working circuit. That's the norm anyway for pocos around my place. Also I have never heard of using a generator to temp HV lines unless it was after a hurricane or severe ice storm while the whole system is down.
 

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Well my favorite POCO did it again....this time it directly affects me. :)

The underground feeder for the 4kv circuit serving my palatial estate (and 1,625 other customers) blew up yesterday morning at 9:22am. The power has been out since then.

I saw them pull the damaged feeder out at 9:30 last night and we were supposed to be back up by 9am today....wellll.....

Latest update before this post now says 3:00pm today....

(BTW it said the same thing on crew status at 6:30 last night):rolleyes::whistling2:

I gave up, went to Harbor Freight and bought one of their 4kw "Predator" gennys....seems to work ok but they LIED big time about the noise...it's supposed to be quiet ("70db") but it is just as loud as any other cheap generator. It was only $299 and has a standard 2yr warranty....we'll see how it holds up.

I'm using it now to get internet and run my fridge, but most of my food was lost already (ALL of the frozen food is trash.)

Anyways, will be interesting to see if/when they can get it up again. :laughing:

Cue MTW and BBQ with the drama remarks...:laughing:
Update:

Just talked to a crew who was outside my building disconnecting a capacitor bank...

They tried to re-energize the feeder at around 6:30am today, and another (different) section of the cable blew up. :rolleyes:

They are now bringing in a generator to temp to the HV lines to get as many of the customers back up as possible.

Which means we'll have another (hopefully brief) outage as they switch back from the genny to the normal feeder.

The saga continues..:)

In other words you had a power failure and you had to tell someone. :jester:
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Isnt the 4 kv section looped? Don't they have jumpers on the truck?

They can just open the disconnects at the pothead while they close or jumper from another working circuit. That's the norm anyway for pocos around my place. Also I have never heard of using a generator to temp HV lines unless it was after a hurricane or severe ice storm while the whole system is down.
I had thought it was looped, but word I got from the crew is that is never was....and they didn't loop it because it is supposed to be changed out to 16kv maybe someday probably not.

Yeah a genny is pretty odd for HV distribution but not unheard of in SCE land. They said the additional cable repair might take another 12-24 hours depending on a number of factors.

I think, but am not sure, that a few important commercial customers are on this circuit, thus the HV genny..otherwise if it was just homes/apts they would just say tough cookies.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
BBQ said:
Please don't encourage him. :laughing::laughing::laughing:
Too late.....:001_tongue:

His POCO doesn't seem like the brightest.
To be fair, the circuit I am on has had no real problems in the 10 years I've been here. We did have a crossarm burn up a few months ago and drop two phases which resulted in an 8-hour outage....and I am sure the stresses from that fault weakened the cable triggering yesterday's fault..the original failed section is only a few hundred feet from the substation and is one of two 4kv underground feeders.

Now the 16kv underground near me has had numerous faults in the past years, do a quick search here I think I did a few treads on those outages.

One thing SCE is lacking on, according to both their own crews and the contract crews who do repairs for them, is proper fusing. They simply do not have enough cutouts installed on the system, so a simple fault on one lateral will often escalate and damage a LOT of other lines and equipment...they rely too much on substation breaker reclosing on faults. The comparatively lower cost of some extra cutouts would save them tons of money in lost revenue during outages and equipment replacement and crew costs.

But that would make to much sense and SCE's engineering Dept. is either seriously understaffed or pretty incompetent. :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
I don't know much about power grids but 4k seems low for 1600 customers.
Back in the 1930's when it was installed it was considered overkill....and since the majority of customers are residential and many are apts with no air conditioning units it is probably still adequate, but just doesn't have any reserve left over.
 

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Too late.....:001_tongue:



To be fair, the circuit I am on has had no real problems in the 10 years I've been here. We did have a crossarm burn up a few months ago and drop two phases which resulted in an 8-hour outage....and I am sure the stresses from that fault weakened the cable triggering yesterday's fault..the original failed section is only a few hundred feet from the substation and is one of two 4kv underground feeders.

Now the 16kv underground near me has had numerous faults in the past years, do a quick search here I think I did a few treads on those outages.

One thing SCE is lacking on, according to both their own crews and the contract crews who do repairs for them, is proper fusing. They simply do not have enough cutouts installed on the system, so a simple fault on one lateral will often escalate and damage a LOT of other lines and equipment...they rely too much on substation breaker reclosing on faults. The comparatively lower cost of some extra cutouts would save them tons of money in lost revenue during outages and equipment replacement and crew costs.

But that would make to much sense and SCE's engineering Dept. is either seriously understaffed or pretty incompetent. :)
Not only that but is seems the substation breakers don't have properly set trip curves, either that the underground feeders aren't installed correctly. The main line should endure a bolted fault plus up to 4 reclose attempts (if your area has no trees 1 should be enough) without the underground transition over heating or failing.

The lack of fusing is just bull, cutouts in bulk are pennies on the dollar, and a simple 100K fuse costs nothing to replace in under 5 minutes. If some engineering theory is behind no fused laterals at least have the taps be of a large enough size to trip a protective device without the wire melting.:laughing:

Have you ever wrote a detailed summary to them?
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Not only that but is seems the substation breakers don't have properly set trip curves, either that the underground feeders aren't installed correctly. The main line should endure a bolted fault plus up to 4 reclose attempts (if your area has no trees 1 should be enough) without the underground transition over heating or failing.

The lack of fusing is just bull, cutouts in bulk are pennies on the dollar, and a simple 100K fuse costs nothing to replace in under 5 minutes. If some engineering theory is behind no fused laterals at least have the taps be of a large enough size to trip a protective device without the wire melting.:laughing:

Have you ever wrote a detailed summary to them?
LOL since they won't listen to their own crews and contractors odds are they wouldn't listen to me either. :laughing:
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Interesting development:

Several of my neighbors have told me that in the last hour, when they called SCE to check on the status of this outage, that SCE claims there is no outage in this area.

That stance is confirmed by taking a look at the outage map....it has disappeared from the site, and the outage number shown returns as "this area is not experiencing an outage...if you power is out call ....."

Yet we are all sitting here without power. :rolleyes:
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Power goes out, roll out portable 8kw, throw interlock, life goes on, food stays cold, heats on. Whats not to like.
Unfrotunately here at the apt no 8kw, no interlock, noisy 4k Harbor Freight special, extension cords everywhere and food's already gone bad from yesterday. :laughing:

Now my new house will have a proper transfer setup and will stay nice and habitable during these events...and thankfully the POCO there seems to know what they are doing as outages are pretty rare out there. :)
 
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