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#### five.five-six

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I just had an inspector call me on pancakes boxes. Are all dead ends and told me that counting the ground 3.9 cubic inches isn't enough to make up a box. is this something new oregon someone site code allowing the use of pancakes boxes

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#### RGH

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yep you might squeak by with 1 14/2 in there with him...was this 12/2? if so to small.:no:

#### MHElectric

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Im pretty sure one 14/2 cable is acceptable. Anything more is too much.

#### five.five-six

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They're all number 14 the problem is I got about 35 of them installed

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#### RGH

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35 oh boy....there is not enough room in them they are usually used for the "exception" area of the box fill code....me thinks you are going back there with bigger boxes bud.

#### cultch

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14awg =2.0 right? 2.0 for the hot 2.0 for the N at least.

#### ablyss

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I just had an inspector call me on pancakes boxes. Are all dead ends and told me that counting the ground 3.9 cubic inches isn't enough to make up a box. is this something new oregon someone site code allowing the use of pancakes boxes

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Let's do the math:
Assuming your using the smallest pancake box 3.5 round .5" deep
pi × 1.25^2 × .5 = 2.5 Cu in volume allowance
14 AWG cu. in allowance 2.0 per conductor, grounds count as 1 conductor
2.0 x 3 = 6.0
This is not allowed unless a plaster extension ring is added.

Assume you use a larger 4" round box
pi × 2^2 × .5 = 6.2 cubic in volume allowance.
2.0 x 3 = 6.0
Plenty of room!

#### ablyss

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Just found out I forgot the cable clamp. That would count as 1 conductor too. So 7.0cu in is what your looking at as the bare minimum.

Romex connectors that have the clamping connection outside the box don't count.

#### ampman

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Does the fan canopy count toward box fill if your installing a fan that is

#### ablyss

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Just found out I forgot the cable clamp. That would count as 1 conductor too. So 7.0cu in is what your looking at as the bare minimum, unless you do use a romex connector clamp.

Romex connectors that have the clamping connection outside the box don't count. So if that is the bare minimum would be 6.0cu in in that case.

#### ablyss

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Does the fan canopy count toward box fill if your installing a fan that is
Only on wires smaller than 14 AWG, and not greater than 4 conductors total

#### MDShunk

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20,945 Posts
You can get a domed blank up canopy. They add a little over 4 cubic inches.

#### stars13bars2

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Let's do the math:
Assuming your using the smallest pancake box 3.5 round .5" deep
pi × 1.25^2 × .5 = 2.5 Cu in volume allowance
14 AWG cu. in allowance 2.0 per conductor, grounds count as 1 conductor
2.0 x 3 = 3.0
This is not allowed unless a plaster extension ring is added.

Assume you use a larger 4" round box
pi × 2^2 × .5 = 6.2 cubic in volume allowance.
2.0 x 3 = 3.0
Plenty of room!
I agree that the 3.5" is not legal with a 14/2wg, it would only work with metal raceway such as EMT being used for ground.

I also agree that the 4" pancake would be legal with one 14/2wg.

I am not sure that 2.0 x 3 = 3.0 though.

ablyss

#### ablyss

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I agree that the 3.5" is not legal with a 14/2wg, it would only work with metal raceway such as EMT being used for ground.

I also agree that the 4" pancake would be legal with one 14/2wg.

I am not sure that 2.0 x 3 = 3.0 though.
Wow Better fix that. Thanks for pointing that out.

#### MDShunk

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The other option would be to put something like a Wiremold V5737 4" round extension box on top (which will attach to the 3" round pancakes) and use a regular 4" flush blankup plate. At the cost of those for how many boxes are involved, I might try to figure out a way to get the little pancakes changed out for something different.

I am curious.... what the hell? Why so many dead ends, and why were pancakes your box of choice?

#### ablyss

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You can get a domed blank up canopy. They add a little over 4 cubic inches.
Gotta be the water

#### chicken steve

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see 314.16(B)(1)ex:thumbsup:~CS~

#### RGH

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I bet you old plaster and lathe house.

#### Skblay

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You don't have to account for the ground if they enter a canopy.

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