What exactly do you mean by that?
panel phase
why do we have to phase out the panel? :blink:
1 - 16 of 16 Posts
Better question....why wouldnt you? When you phase a panel you have to make sure you keep it all straight. Black, red, blue. Or for high voltage Brown, orange, yellow.
If you don't know what the phases are how do you know what voltages your using? You might be working on a high leg delta system. (Although, from what I've been told aren't installed anymore.) If that was the case your "B" phase would be 208 volts to neutral. That phase would be marked with orange phase tape to identify the high leg.
Im new here guys, if I am wrong, please let me know! I want to learn everything I can!
If you don't know what the phases are how do you know what voltages your using? You might be working on a high leg delta system. (Although, from what I've been told aren't installed anymore.) If that was the case your "B" phase would be 208 volts to neutral. That phase would be marked with orange phase tape to identify the high leg.
Im new here guys, if I am wrong, please let me know! I want to learn everything I can!
Better question....why wouldnt you? When you phase a panel you have to make sure you keep it all straight. Black, red, blue. Or for high voltage Brown, orange, yellow.
If you don't know what the phases are how do you know what voltages your using? You might be working on a high leg delta system. (Although, from what I've been told aren't installed anymore.) If that was the case your "B" phase would be 208 volts to neutral. That phase would be marked with orange phase tape to identify the high leg.
Im new here guys, if I am wrong, please let me know! I want to learn everything I can!
From what I hear on here more people use orange just to mark out the high leg now, where as I have always seen and used as in "B O Y" on 480v installs.
a panel is phased so that if there are multi wire branch circuits, which share a neutral, the netural wire is not overloaded. The neutral wire carries the unbalanced load from the three phases that share the single neutral. When properly phased, it should never carry more current that the rating of a single ovecurrent protection device of it's "group".
If you have multi wire branch circuits sharing the same neutral, and on the same phase, it could concceivably carry the entire current of both circuits on that neutral. (i.e. 2 -20 amp circuits, both on "A" phase, sharing a neutral, could carry up to 40 amps of current, which would overload, and overheat the conductor. If they were on seperate phases, it could only the difference between the two currents.)
If each circuit has an individual neutral, phasing is not necessary.
If you have multi wire branch circuits sharing the same neutral, and on the same phase, it could concceivably carry the entire current of both circuits on that neutral. (i.e. 2 -20 amp circuits, both on "A" phase, sharing a neutral, could carry up to 40 amps of current, which would overload, and overheat the conductor. If they were on seperate phases, it could only the difference between the two currents.)
If each circuit has an individual neutral, phasing is not necessary.
a panel is phased so that if there are multi wire branch circuits, which share a neutral, the netural wire is not overloaded. The neutral wire carries the unbalanced load from the three phases that share the single neutral. When properly phased, it should never carry more current that the rating of a single ovecurrent protection device of it's "group".
If you have multi wire branch circuits sharing the same neutral, and on the same phase, it could concceivably carry the entire current of both circuits on that neutral. (i.e. 2 -20 amp circuits, both on "A" phase, sharing a neutral, could carry up to 40 amps of current, which would overload, and overheat the conductor. If they were on seperate phases, it could only the difference between the two currents.)
If each circuit has an individual neutral, phasing is not necessary.
Maybe I'm missing something here but, on MWBC's if the ungrounded conductors are coming off of adjacent breakers, how could they be on the same phase? I have never seen a distribution panel that you could get to do that by choosing the wrong lug for a phase. You would have to skip a breaker in between on a single phase panel or two in between on a three phase panel and the handles wouldn't be interlocked.
perhaps I misunderstood the OP, but the wire colors has (almost) nothing to do with it. the electricity doesn't care what color the wire is. You can have a ,MWBC without having them on consectutive breakers...that is my point. It helps ensure that they are not terminated on the same phase
If they weren't on consecutive breakers they wouldn't have interlocked handles (code violation) and none of us would do that. The only reason I commented on color was in reply to the post just before mine, nothing to do with the OP.perhaps I misunderstood the OP, but the wire colors has (almost) nothing to do with it. the electricity doesn't care what color the wire is. You can have a ,MWBC without having them on consectutive breakers...that is my point. It helps ensure that they are not terminated on the same phase
One reason I can think of to properly phase panels is if you have 3 phase receptacles from more than one panel that feed 3 phase motors, you're more likely to get rotation right the first time.
In reality on a wye or single phase, it doesn't matter if A is on the left of every panel. It does look more professional though. Alot of us take pride in our work, and this is just one way we show it.
Rob
In reality on a wye or single phase, it doesn't matter if A is on the left of every panel. It does look more professional though. Alot of us take pride in our work, and this is just one way we show it.
Rob
That's only required in the '08.If they weren't on consecutive breakers they wouldn't have interlocked handles (code violation)...
That's something we have always done.That's only required in the '08.
If they ever do phase out panels, we're done for!
I think we all misunderstood the OP. That is why I have kept out of this mess.perhaps I misunderstood the OP,
I was hoping he would have come back by now and explain this cryptic question.
If they ever do phase out panels, we're done for!
:thumbup: Very punny.
Continuity.
I like to phase out panels so that what I have on phase "a" on the disconnect is what is on phase a on the panel. I like to keep track, period.
It also is a nice quick indicator as to the voltage you are dealing with if you are in an unfamiliar environment. 120/208/240 can quickly be distinguished by the "Black/Red/Blue" vs 277/460/480 can by the "Brown/Orange/Yellow."
Someone poste the High Leg Delta not being installed any more and I do believe that to be the case. However, they are still in existance as I just worked on one a few weeks back. I do not like those Sam I am, I do not like Hi Legs...in jam? :whistling2: Sorry, that's all I had.
I like to phase out panels so that what I have on phase "a" on the disconnect is what is on phase a on the panel. I like to keep track, period.
It also is a nice quick indicator as to the voltage you are dealing with if you are in an unfamiliar environment. 120/208/240 can quickly be distinguished by the "Black/Red/Blue" vs 277/460/480 can by the "Brown/Orange/Yellow."
Someone poste the High Leg Delta not being installed any more and I do believe that to be the case. However, they are still in existance as I just worked on one a few weeks back. I do not like those Sam I am, I do not like Hi Legs...in jam? :whistling2: Sorry, that's all I had.
1 - 16 of 16 Posts
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