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Photovoltaic and the future of the electrical industry

4K views 39 replies 21 participants last post by  captkirk 
#1 ·
I used that title because I hope this to be a weigh in post, and hopefully there will be lots of opinions.
I am a licensed electrician. However, I mostly do HVAC and refrigeration work. I am licensed in that too. I do a lot of electrical troubleshooting from the controls all the way back to the meter base. I have usually been advised that there are a lot of electricians out there in the field that really don't care for troubleshooting and reading schematics.
I can see that. There are a lot of different avenues to persue in the business from pipe bender to engineer and salesman.

What I am wondering though is who is going to install these solar photovoltaic systems, and probably more importantly who is going to service them if troublshooting is indeed becoming a lost art or is at least shunned by some electricians. We know a licensed electrician is going to have to install them and service them per code. Heck, it is a felony in nc to do electrical work on someone elses property if you aren't licensed.

I guess what I am asking in addition to the general discussion of these systems is if this is an avenue of the business that young electricians like myself need to gear up for, or is it a fad like in the early 80's with the solar panel hot water systems? And if it needs to be pursued, how does an electricain go about doing so?

These systems from what I see are coming, and the HVAC manufacturers are jumping on the band wagon and gearing up their units to work on this type energy. That should be good for the electricians I would think, but at the same time I don't know exactly just how licensing is needed in a building in regards to DC voltage. Hopefully someone can shed some light on that too.
 
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#3 · (Edited)
Only in new construction have I met guys who don't care anything about service work. You can't be a service electrician and not know how to troubleshoot. It is not a lost art. You are just hanging out in the wrong part on NC...:laughing:


App state has a 2 weekend 40 hour course for 750.00 on solar electrical. Worth the money. We will be gearing up to advertise solar installs soon. Your limited license allows you to do solar in NC. You are correct any electrical work needs to be done by a licensed electrician in NC. The main county we work in lets HO's do their own electrical work if they pass a test only.


ARTICLE 690
Solar Photovoltaic (PV) Systems
 
#4 ·
I design, install and trouble shoot them now. I've lived off grid with solar in northern MN for over 16 years. As far as a percentage of my biz, solar systems are very low. It's not competitive without rebates, and I hate rebates . If a product can't stand on its own, it shouldn't be out there. Off grid is different (no rebates). That said oil, coal and nuke are subsidized too ! I try to push my customers down the no rebate road because it's the right thing to do. Why should someone else (tax payer) pay for your stuff. Ok, I'm getting off the soap box now.
 
#6 ·
Check this out. Mainly D1

TITLE 14 HOUSING AND CONSTRUCTION
CHAPTER 10 ELECTRICAL CODES
PART 4 2008 NEW MEXICO ELECTRICAL CODE

D. Energy efficiency requirements. (1) On new construction in one and two family dwelling units, a listed, non-flexible 11/4 inch electrical raceway shall be installed during rough-in from an accessible location in the garage or designated solar photovoltaic equipment location to the roof for photovoltaic wiring. The conduit shall be sealed with a listed fitting or box at each end.
(2) On new construction, additions or renovations to type B office occupancies, motion detecting switching shall be installed in any conference room for control of general illumination. Exception: accent or other room lighting controlled by dimmers, or lighting systems controlled by building energy management or automatic systems.
(3) On new construction, additions or renovations to one and two family dwelling units, fluorescent luminaires or compact fluorescent lamps (CFL) shall be installed in all laundry rooms, closets with luminaires, and attached or detached garages with electric power.
(4) In existing buildings where building wall and /or ceiling covering is replaced or disturbed replace 50% of the total luminaires (light fixtures), or lamps in those luminaires, with luminaires or lamps that qualify as ENERGY STAR. This requirement shall be limited to the area being altered, repaired or renovated.
(5) Where penetrating the building thermal envelope, recessed luminaires (light fixtures) shall be rated for insulation contact (IC) and shall be rated airtight.
(6) On one and two family dwelling unit(s) motion sensors, daylight sensors, and/or timers shall be installed on at least 33% of the outdoor luminaires (light fixtures).
E. Night Sky Protection Act. Outdoor lighting shall comply with the Night Sky Protection Act.
[14.10.4.14 NMAC - N, 7-1-08]
 
#8 ·
Check this out. Mainly D1

TITLE 14 HOUSING AND CONSTRUCTION
CHAPTER 10 ELECTRICAL CODES
PART 4 2008 NEW MEXICO ELECTRICAL CODE

D. Energy efficiency requirements. (1) On new construction in one and two family dwelling units, a listed, non-flexible 11/4 inch electrical raceway shall be installed during rough-in from an accessible location in the garage or designated solar photovoltaic equipment location to the roof for photovoltaic wiring. The conduit shall be sealed with a listed fitting or box at each end.
[14.10.4.14 NMAC - N, 7-1-08]
Can't be PVC either. I have installed these, but it was customer requested. What if they pole mount their future PV system in the yard. What a waste! There is a new rule in NEC 2011 about running spare conduits. Don't have my book in front of me. You could incorporate it with that
 
#10 ·
I think it was a fad a fear years ago but its going to become standard in the next 10-20 years (or whenever they get the cost down enough for them to be practical) to see these newer greener technologies. We got a small wind turbine trainer last semester at my college and there was a guy there last week from some Govt. dept talking with 1 of my profs about some kind of multi million $$ grant for teaching more classes on this kind of tech, i.e. wind, hydro,photovoltaic etc. I think this kind of stuff is going to be the future and the younger generation better learn how to work with it.
Check this out too if you haven't seen it: Saw 1 video of a farm of these covering like 1/2 a square mile somewhere off the coast of England ( I think it was).Powered something like 20,000 homes.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mcTNkoyvLFs
 
#12 ·
Solar is exploding here. There are some shops making HUGE money off of solar right now. Check this out for the Eagles Stadium,


The Philadelphia Eagles are taking their gridiron off the grid.

The team said Thursday that it will add wind turbines, solar panels and a cogeneration plant at Lincoln Financial Field over the next year, a combination that will make the stadium self-sufficient and let the Eagles sell some power back to the electric grid.
Eagles owner Jeffrey Lurie said the plan was part of the Eagles' commitment to be a socially responsible organization.
"Owning an NFL team, I think you have an opportunity to lead the way," Lurie told The Associated Press. "It's a public building seen across the country and, sometimes, the world."
Under the plan, approximately 80 spiral-shaped wind turbines will be mounted on the stadium's roof and 2,500 solar panels attached to the stadium's facade. Together, they will contribute an estimated 30 percent to the total energy production.
An onsite "dual-fuel" cogeneration plant, a small power plant that captures its heat for increased efficiency, powered by biodiesel and natural gas will contribute the rest of the energy. The system is designed to produce at least 8.6 megawatts of power, enough to meet the stadium's peak energy use of around 7 megawatts.
The construction project will employ an estimated 200 workers over the course of the next year.
SolarBlue, an Orlando, Fla.-based renewable energy company, will pay $30 million to install and run the system for 20 years. The team will pay the firm for its power, the cost of which will increase at a fixed 3 percent annual rate.
The project is expected to be finished by September, and the team estimates it will save $60 million in energy costs.
SolarBlue is also currently working with the Boston Red Sox on an energy conservation project at Fenway Park.
No government grants were sought, but the project will benefit from renewable energy incentives, SolarBlue Chairman Lee Maher said.
NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell said the Eagles have initiated a sustainability trend in the league. "The NFL is one of the most competitive clubs in the world," Goodell said. "That's because our clubs are competitive with one another."
This job is set to gear up real soon and put between 100-150 union electricians to work.

There's been an explosion of solar work here, state wide.
I'm glad to see my local getting a jump on it. Up until about a year ago I felt we were missing the boat on it.
 
#17 ·
Solar is exploding here. There are some shops making HUGE money off of solar right now. Check this out for the Eagles Stadium,




This job is set to gear up real soon and put between 100-150 union electricians to work.

There's been an explosion of solar work here, state wide.
I'm glad to see my local getting a jump on it. Up until about a year ago I felt we were missing the boat on it.
Yeah a company out of Florida is doing the job not the Philly union i heard somewhere.
 
#13 ·
It seems P.V. Systems in Oregon have been on a steady increase over the last couple years. there is only a few companies that I know of that specialize in it around the Portland area, I know a few guys working for these companies and they are booked out for work for at least 2 months, while most other shops are scraping by on service calls. I know we've even adopted a Solar Specialty code for Oregon with special restrictions and amendments to the NEC.

Even utility companies in the region are jumping on the "Green" bandwagon.

Personally I would like to do some P.V. systems.
 
#14 ·
I don't know what the future will be powered by, but I'm sure PV will be part of it. I also KNOW that something has to replace the current system, because fossil fueled energy is simply not sustainable. We will either find a copious source of clean energy, or we will go back to fire light.
 
#18 ·
Every time someone wants to put up solar panels around here. You get the neighbors mob complaining to the city that it's an eyesore and they don't want to have to look at it. It's called NIMBY (not in my back yard). Even the local Jr. high school was protested by students and parents when they contracted Chevron to install an solar array. they even went to the news paper and made a big stink about it.
These are the same people who preach green energy. But don't want it anywhere near them!
 
#21 ·
I think they need to focus on the windmills also. I'm on a job where i can see a windmill and that thing is always spinning even on the cloudy days.
Windmills?:laughing: You mean wind turbines.
 
#22 ·
#24 · (Edited)
Why do people come on this site and make total asses out of themselves.

I was personally involved with this project. We have all the man power for this job. The only thing left on the table is the windmills and I expect that to be settled sooner rather then later.

Another thing. Why the hell would a paper from NYC have a clue about what's going on in Philadelphia???
 
#25 ·
Solar is huge in New Jersey. They have panels on just about every telephone pole.

I've been told that the project I'm working on now is the 3rd largest solar project in the nation. Not sure how true that is, but it's a total of 8,008 panels. It's pretty impressive to look at.
 
#26 ·
I'll be learning about photovoltaic systems as part of my coursework as I see no need reason to not learn about them, especially since the Code, while covering such systems, is not meant as a "How-To" guide.

I'm fairly decent at reading schematics, and that will also be part of my MANDATORY coursework while I'm in school. I can't get away from reading them or from drawing them up (using TinyCAD, as limited as its usefulness is in electrical drawings).

In my non-professional opinion: Bone up on photovoltaic systems when you get the chance. Don't wait, just do it. I don't know much of those solar water heater things you were talking about, as I was just a kid in the 80s, but I will tell you that solar power is not just a fad. As for me, I will get the training while I'm in school and do my best to keep up on it (even if I install for myself (which I plan on doing)), it won't hurt and is not a waste of time.

Speaking for myself, now. In the county I live in, just last year a regular joe had a several thousand dollar solar energy system installed (even made the regional news). He's going to need someone who knows how to service that equipment. If no one else in the area (doubtful, but who knows) knows the ins and outs of working on solar, I'm going to have a leg up for that job because I will know those ins and outs. There won't be one part of that circuit I won't be able to work on from the electronics to the line.

Note I post this without reading but maybe a quarter of those who have responded, so if I'm saying the same as them, my apologies.
 
#31 ·
This field has some huge advantages going forward. Electrical car hook up and PV systems are going to take off big time.
Tax credits? Don't worry about them so much. In the HVAC business, we have eaten all of that up, and quite frankly the credits have been geared toward the rich, and actually left out the majority, which is where the actual electrical savings were to be found in the HVAC business. Long story, but the numbers don't lie.
Where the tax incentives will be isn't in electrical savings, but rather will be in job creation, at least for the next couple of years. Now I can see job creation with PV and electrical car hookups
Someone mentioned wind turbines. I sat in a CE class with a good engineer a while back that explained to me that there are certain perameters to work in with wind energy, and I was suprised to learn that there is a maximum speed as well as a minimum speed. I think he said something like 25 mph is the max and the turbines stop. I didn't ask why, but I am assuming to protect them mechanically??????????
Anyone here got any info on that?
 
#32 ·
This field has some huge advantages going forward. Electrical car hook up and PV systems are going to take off big time.
Tax credits? Don't worry about them so much. In the HVAC business, we have eaten all of that up, and quite frankly the credits have been geared toward the rich, and actually left out the majority, which is where the actual electrical savings were to be found in the HVAC business. Long story, but the numbers don't lie.
Where the tax incentives will be isn't in electrical savings, but rather will be in job creation, at least for the next couple of years. Now I can see job creation with PV and electrical car hookups
Someone mentioned wind turbines. I sat in a CE class with a good engineer a while back that explained to me that there are certain perameters to work in with wind energy, and I was suprised to learn that there is a maximum speed as well as a minimum speed. I think he said something like 25 mph is the max and the turbines stop. I didn't ask why, but I am assuming to protect them mechanically??????????
Anyone here got any info on that?
Most smaller wind turbines are output rated at 25 mph, here is a spec list from Bergey, I have one of their's.


 
Reference Rated Power: 10 kW.
AWEA Rated Power: 8.2 kW at 25mph.
AWEA Rated Annual Energy: 13,200 kWh at 11 mph average.
AWEA Rated Sound Level: 54.7 dBA.
Cut-in Wind Speed: 5 mph.
Cut-out Wind Speed: none.
Peak Power: 12.5 kW at 28 mph.
Max. Design Wind Speed: 135 mph.
Design Operating Life: 30-50 years.
Turbine Rotor Diameter: 23 ft.
 
#37 ·
like all trades, we must keep abreast of the new technologies,
business is driven by consumer demand,
New technologies create new demand,
So if you want to stay in the electrical trade,
Follow the new technologies,
If its a fad, then it will die,
but you can still make some money along the way.
servicing the many poorly designed and installed systems.
This is where good electricains will be needed.
 
#38 ·
Backstay, what would a setup like that cost to install and maintain?
Around here, people are selling unused power to the grid. I thought about installing some PV at my house to learn about it on my own.
 
#39 ·
Backstay, what would a setup like that cost to install and maintain?
Around here, people are selling unused power to the grid. I thought about installing some PV at my house to learn about it on my own.
$9000 for panels
$1500 for mounts
$3000 for inverter
$1000 for electrical
$14,500 total at cost, no labor

It runs at least $6/watt installed more like $7.50

It won't pay unless you get cash from the Gov and Poco.
 
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