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Beam Me Up Scotty
Elechicken
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2,399 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Has anyone ever attempted to use a rigid plumbing 90° with Rigid electrical conduit?

Asking for a friend... looking to install alarm wiring in a tamper proof & vandalproof way where it may be exposed outdoors. All the LB's we can find are cast and a hammer will easily break them.

Low voltage only. Is there a code against this? I know for electrical there is...

I know it will be a royal PITA to get through, if we can even get it through.
 

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Registered
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14,472 Posts
Sealtite.

Hide everything in plain sight.

If it does not look like it's an alarm circuit -- just plain vanilla power conductors -- it will not draw attention.

BTW, Sealtite crushes -- but does not shatter.

Any decent alarm system will go into "trouble fault' the moment the circuit is jacked up -- but not in full alarm.

If the facility is worth it, the risk is that great -- use redundant alarms.

Dummy cameras are also part of the art. With such dummies, the raceway looks like it has disappeared into the structure. Heh.
 

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Hackenschmidt
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10,467 Posts
I thought supervised sensors meant never having to worry about tampering?

I wouldn't try a plumbing fitting because if you've ever inadvertently tried pulling through a pull elbow, you know it's iffy at best and it may well damage the cable.

Speaking of pulling elbow - a cast pulling elbow would be harder to shatter than an LB. Making the 90 with a box might be another way to go.

You could spend a fortune and use stainless / explosion proof but that's going to really spend.

You could put a box over a pulling elbow and use one way screws on the cover, that would be easy enough. It wouldn't be hammer proof but it would be hammer resistant.

I make a shepherd's hook bend for fiber where the bend radius is critical. All it really is is a 90 and an offset to get the conduit back on the wall. This one is made as ugly as possible:



If you want these to look better, first use the smallest conduit you really need so the radius of the bend is smaller and it protrudes less from the wall. Oversize the hole and hog it out a little oval on the side with the bend. This will make your offset as small as possible. Then space it out a little, put the offset a little further away from the 90. Looks much better that way.

The shepherd's crook is the only way that preserves the big bend radius the BICSI nazis want for datacom but that's not usually specced for alarm wiring.
 

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Beam Me Up Scotty
Elechicken
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2,399 Posts
Discussion Starter #5 (Edited)
I thought supervised sensors meant never having to worry about tampering?
Yes, an alarm is already quiet tamperproof when using either single or double end of line resistors properly, however, this is also for the siren wiring, and it may also be for the alarm communication wiring if they decide to have it monitored by an alarm company. I'm not entirely sure yet, as we are in the planning stages. I don't do alarms for a living lol.

I like Navyguy's idea. I wouldn't have thought of using chico in an LB.

This is all a last resort if I cannot find a way to fish the walls in this 100 year old home. I'm hoping for balloon framing.

I am also entertaining the idea of armoured CAT5E cable. It's like teck cable, but smaller!

My friend has a neighbor that was broken into. They took their time to empty half of the house into the woods. Neighbor (and her less than 2 year old child) comes home to find the burglar still there.

I'm not sure how smart thieves can be, but if wiring is on the outside of a home, it's just not preferred.

I know an alarm guy that doesn't use end of line resistors at all for residential installs... makes it kind of useless IMHO.
 

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Hackenschmidt
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10,467 Posts
I am also entertaining the idea of armoured CAT5E cable. It's like teck cable, but smaller!
Armored cat 5e is quite a bit beefier. If you get a polyethylene jacket, you'll see it's really tough stuff, difficult to work with. But I really wouldn't try pulling armored cat5e around a hard bend, it will get wrecked. The armor isn't that tough, it's more for rodent-proofing.
 

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The Accidental Welder
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1,154 Posts
We have 'em too, fittings in that isle are just cheaper.

Many styles available with an electrical listing:
M/M:

M/F:

F/F:





Priciest, but would make the pull easier:
 

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Electrician
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885 Posts
although if you can take it apart with the built in union, so can they.
 
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Electrical Contractor
Owner
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4,212 Posts
Get an ADT yard sign and window stickers and put an old dog food bowl by the front door. That's enough to cause them to take a pass and move along to check out the next house.
Don't forget the 2 foot long dog bone :vs_laugh:
 

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Petulant Amateur
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24,241 Posts
I’m not getting this. If you want to use a plumber’s elbow, why not use a normal electrical 90? If you have to, put a union on it and pull the cable as you build the pipe. If this is a house, I can’t see it being too long or complicated.
 

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Beam Me Up Scotty
Elechicken
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2,399 Posts
Discussion Starter #17
I’m not getting this. If you want to use a plumber’s elbow, why not use a normal electrical sweep elbow? If you have to, put a union on it and pull the cable as you build the pipe. If this is a house, I can’t see it being too long or complicated.
What CTshockhazard shared is exactly what I'm looking for.

They will be short runs where possible. Should a union be needed, it'll be preferably above 10'. But I don't think my runs will need a union.

I need a tight 90° to go around a corner on the outside of the building around 3 feet off of the ground.

I'm either gonna try a 90 like those CT shared. Failing that, I'll use an LB and pickup some chico like Navyguy said.


ETA: to clarify, I was unaware that rigid 90's similar to plumbing ones existed. This will be the first time using rigid. No time to learn like on the first job lol
 

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Beam Me Up Scotty
Elechicken
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2,399 Posts
Discussion Starter #19
Loctite?



I dunno, though. A thief might understand a hammer but a wrench can get complicated. There’s that “lefty loosy, righty tighty” thing.
Red loctite would work great, except when you try to take the fitting apart in the future LOL!

Sent from my new phone. Autocorrect may have changed stuff.
 
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