[josh5879]

One of my customers owns a summer camp facility. It has something like 20-30 individual buildings. The facility is used for 2-3 months during the summer and then completely shut down, all main breakers off.
Utility provides 13.8 KV which is distributed throughout the camp and then transformed down to service each individual building. There is only 1 meter for the entire campus which is located at the entrance, it meters the 13.8 KV lines using CTs.
Problem is he's getting billed by his utility company between $2000-$4000 a monthly during the winter months when there should be absolutely no electrical consumption. He asked me if that is normal, I told him of course not, and to email me a copy of his bills so I can look them over myself.
I'm still waiting for him to send me over those bills, but in the meantime just looking for some feedback has anyone had this type of problem ?
I wonder if this maybe caused by a relatively small short from one of the overhead conductors to ground. Not large enough to blow the poco fuses but large enough to be charged a fortune.

 

[HARRY305E]

One of my customers owns a summer camp facility. It has something like 20-30 individual buildings. The facility is used for 2-3 months during the summer and then completely shut down, all main breakers off.
Utility provides 13.8 KV which is distributed throughout the camp and then transformed down to service each individual building. There is only 1 meter for the entire campus which is located at the entrance, it meters the 13.8 KV lines using CTs.
Problem is he's getting billed by his utility company between $2000-$4000 a monthly during the winter months when there should be absolutely no electrical consumption. He asked me if that is normal, I told him of course not, and to email me a copy of his bills so I can look them over myself.
I'm still waiting for him to send me over those bills, but in the meantime just looking for some feedback has anyone had this type of problem ?
I wonder if this maybe caused by a relatively small short from one of the overhead conductors to ground. Not large enough to blow the poco fuses but large enough to be charged a fortune.

Does the meter show the KWH's going up all winter?

 

[Jlarson]

Do they have a well?

 

[josh5879]

It's a pretty confusing meter in the first place, and then it has a 700 multiply factor, but as far as I can tell yes, there is definitely electricity being consumed, the meter advanced 1 kWh in one week i.e. 700 kWh.
And as far as wells, yes there are number of wells on grounds, but all of them are completely shut off.

 

[Jlarson]

What about direct bury underground?

 

[josh5879]

What about direct bury underground?

There's a bit of direct bury heading to some of the wells, but again that should be off. I don't believe there's anything directly buried pre-disconnect.

 

[Tiger]

Is your customer being billed for actual use or are they on a monthly plan that prorates annual use?

 

[MDShunk]

Is your customer being billed for actual use or are they on a msonthly plan that prorates annual use?

That would be my guess. Or, they're sending him estimated bills in the winter because of access issues, and they just assume it's occupied The other option is that he signed up with one of those power companies that promised him over the phone to save him money, and they soak it to you in the winter, such as many in my area have found out. I've had a few people who normally get 60-dollar electric bills get 1600-2000 dollar bills in Jan and Feb.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

With seasonal loads, the utility often has a minimum billing for the off season to cover their distribution costs.

 

[josh5879]

Okay thanks, I will wait till I get that bill and I'm also going to have them check and read the meters in the week. Between the two I should be able to get to the bottom of it.

 

[btharmy]

Sounds like some of the campers found a nice empty place to do some "indoor gardening" during the winter months.

 

[dmxtothemax]

One of my customers owns a summer camp facility. It has something like 20-30 individual buildings. The facility is used for 2-3 months during the summer and then completely shut down, all main breakers off.
Utility provides 13.8 KV which is distributed throughout the camp and then transformed down to service each individual building. There is only 1 meter for the entire campus which is located at the entrance, it meters the 13.8 KV lines using CTs.
Problem is he's getting billed by his utility company between $2000-$4000 a monthly during the winter months when there should be absolutely no electrical consumption. He asked me if that is normal, I told him of course not, and to email me a copy of his bills so I can look them over myself.
I'm still waiting for him to send me over those bills, but in the meantime just looking for some feedback has anyone had this type of problem ?
I wonder if this maybe caused by a relatively small short from one of the overhead conductors to ground. Not large enough to blow the poco fuses but large enough to be charged a fortune.

Stand in front of the meter !
Is it moving ? Turn off breakers until it stops !
That is which circuit is using power .
Go from there !
Easy !

 

[josh5879]

Stand in front of the meter ! Is it moving ? Turn off breakers until it stops ! That is which circuit is using power . Go from there ! Easy !

it has a multiplier of 700 i'll be standing there if pretty long time before it moves one kilowatt hour

 

[josh5879]

"A pretty long time" that is

 

[Pete m.]

Stand in front of the meter !
Is it moving ? Turn off breakers until it stops !
That is which circuit is using power .
Go from there !
Easy !

In post #1 all the mains are open.

Pete

 

[JRaef]

In post #1 all the mains are open.

Pete

Yep, saw that too. That really only leaves the estimated use, prorated plan or minimum charge issues. A phone call to the PoCo is in immediate order.

 

[circuitman1]

here's just a thought, if there metering the primary of the 13.8 kv line, & they have several pots(transformers) on this line, then you have a primary that is drawing some current, even there is no load on the secondary.it would be small on one pot but if you had several it would add up.of course when ya load the secondary the primary current increases. is this a new digital meter or an old mechanical meter? electronic meters are a little more accurate.:whistling2:

 

[josh5879]

here's just a thought, if there metering the primary of the 13.8 kv line, & they have several pots(transformers) on this line, then you have a primary that is drawing some current, even there is no load on the secondary.it would be small on one pot but if you had several it would add up.of course when ya load the secondary the primary current increases. is this a new digital meter or an old mechanical meter? electronic meters are a little more accurate.:whistling2:

Is that really true!?
Yes, of course there are probably about 10 pole mounted transformers throughout the grounds. If you're right about that he can have the poco come and disconnect
the whole campus for the duration of the winter and save $10-$15,000.
Yes this is a new fancy digital meter which is impossible to read, by the time its busy telling you about the kVA and the kW and KWh and kVar and the line to line volts and mind you this is all basically symbolized in code what measurement its giving you.

 

[Pete m.]

Is that really true!?
Yes, of course there are probably about 10 pole mounted transformers throughout the grounds. If you're right about that he can have the poco come and disconnect
the whole campus for the duration of the winter and save $10-$15,000.
Yes this is a new fancy digital meter which is impossible to read, by the time its busy telling you about the kVA and the kW and KWh and kVar and the line to line volts and mind you this is all basically symbolized in code what measurement its giving you.

Perhaps ask if he could save money by individually metering each service as opposed to primary metering?

AFAIK, large users will save some $ by using primary metering but this may not be one of those situations.

Pete

 

[circuitman1]

yes, they do draw some power, i belive it's called magnetizing current. it should be a realtively small amount though.they could put an amp clamp on the line & see what it's drawing. they have special types for hi voltage. but some else seems to be at work here. what is his usage for one month?