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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I do mostly residential wiring but someone wants me to be the contractor in charge of engineering this service. So I'm considering it. It's a single phase 4 meter bank with either 125 amp or up to 225 amp individual main breakers. It will be an underground service. Here's the deal. It's designed in thirds. The mains are on the left, 4 meters up and down in a column in the center and the poco supply lugs on the right. They want to put a gutter underneath so that 2 main feeder conduits can go on either side. The guy that had met with the poco engineer said they could go through the gutter straight up through to the poco side of the meter bank and still use the gutter for the 4 feeder sets of wires. I didn't see the code section reference anywhere that addresses such as this. My gut feeling is no since the unfused poco wires go through the gutter thus sharing the space with fused wires. Tell me if this is acceptable or not. I also told him that an alternative might be that the 2 conduits going right could pass from the left if there is enough room to go down and under a 45 degree elbow and back up thus eliminating the gutter. Let me know where the NEC code reference would be for this. There's always something new to learn. Thanks.
 

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Electrical contractor 37 years. Electrical inspector 2 years
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As far as I know you are not allowed to have fused with Unfused service conductors in the same raceway unless it is the service equipment itself. NEC 230.7
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Attached to wood through the metal siding. Just the poco side will be underground. Their idea was to have a long trough at the bottom to have the feeders come up wherever they want along it. The problem is that the underground conduit needs to come up in the bottom which is the right side on this one.
 

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What if you used a vertical trough to the right side of the meters? Or you could use individual meter cans, mount the gutter above everything else and drop down to the meters, then have the mains under that.
 

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What if you used a vertical trough to the right side of the meters? Or you could use individual meter cans, mount the gutter above everything else and drop down to the meters, then have the mains under that.
Fixture Gas Composite material Concrete Machine
Fixture Gas Composite material Concrete Machine
Fixture Gas Machine Composite material Concrete
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
I agree with you Almost Retired. I've worked for this man who has rent houses and a small strip center. I told him I really didn't want to do it but reluctantly agreed then found out that there was going to be more than 1 meter. Then saw how this stated getting complicated for me. I think I need to go down under the 4 degree elbow and back up on the right side.
 

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as i understand the gutter situation, they want a feeder to the right of the meters
i suggest you go over the meters to the right with those feeders
you will need to plan your mains placement to make the conduit easier to run as required and without crossing
then you have to plan which meter goes with which main, this will avoid an expensive gutter
my poco does not allow before meter and after meter wiring to be mixed, for sure not service and feeder wires

your biggest problem is that somebody else met with the poco
not sure you can overcome that with out a 2nd meeting
also remember poco may be more lax than the inspector
be certain to involve insp as early as you have something to show him and discuss

if you want to try doing this on your own, begin by driving around medium shopping centers and so forth
stop and look at some of the more complicated set ups
try to trace the flow of power to the individual store, with your imagination of course

next dig into the code, this will take a cpl full days probably
use the nec index to look up services, etc.
get at least 8 small slips of paper to use as place markers
get several full sheets for notes
start to read Everything that is in every section concerning services, meters, etc.
(except for voltages that will not apply to this and similar)
begin by reading the main section, digest what it says, make a synopsis in your own words
next, one at a time, read all of the references that are listed, digest what it says, make a synopsis in your own words

at this point you should have a good idea of what you have been reading and writing down
go back to the main, and then the references, one at a time, re-read and check your synopses for accuracy and meaning

once you are certain you have it all in your head and fully understand the INTENT of it
it is time to find out what your poco specs are, search online and find them
mine encourages copying and sharing of all the info in their specs, they want ppl to know
the code denies being a teaching manual, but you can use it as one. i have done it more than once.

there should be some prints and drawings made by an archt or eng ,,, do not accept that job for yourself
do not accept the job of general contractor, continue to be the electrical contractor (service only at this point)
down here public building plans require a fire marshal stamp before beginning bidding
at this point it is time to make a drawing of what you think will work, make it as detailed as possible
go back over the code and poco specs to ensure you are compliant
now with your drawing as good as you can make it, post it here for critique and suggestions
a pic of the wall where you want to mount it will help a lot, if it has been built
pics of the eqpmt or links will help also

finally go to the inspector and meet him. explain that you would like to do it this way and see if he thinks it will pass, also ask if he has any sort of check list or something
i found that when i do something unusual, the absolute best way to approach it is to get the inspector trying to help me at the beginning, he will tend to keep that attitude through the inspection process and continue to make helpful suggestions
if you wait till the end and ask him to pass something he may dig in his heels and nitpick you from then on

commercial construction requires a lot of knowledge and planning before you ever buy equipment
by the way if you do this, do it time and material (TM) there is no way you can bid this at your current level
keep in mind the material shortages for large and unusual equipment, do your best to use common eqpt.
 

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as i understand the gutter situation, they want a feeder to the right of the meters
i suggest you go over the meters to the right with those feeders
you will need to plan your mains placement to make the conduit easier to run as required and without crossing
then you have to plan which meter goes with which main, this will avoid an expensive gutter
my poco does not allow before meter and after meter wiring to be mixed, for sure not service and feeder wires

your biggest problem is that somebody else met with the poco
not sure you can overcome that with out a 2nd meeting
also remember poco may be more lax than the inspector
be certain to involve insp as early as you have something to show him and discuss

if you want to try doing this on your own, begin by driving around medium shopping centers and so forth
stop and look at some of the more complicated set ups
try to trace the flow of power to the individual store, with your imagination of course

next dig into the code, this will take a cpl full days probably
use the nec index to look up services, etc.
get at least 8 small slips of paper to use as place markers
get several full sheets for notes
start to read Everything that is in every section concerning services, meters, etc.
(except for voltages that will not apply to this and similar)
begin by reading the main section, digest what it says, make a synopsis in your own words
next, one at a time, read all of the references that are listed, digest what it says, make a synopsis in your own words

at this point you should have a good idea of what you have been reading and writing down
go back to the main, and then the references, one at a time, re-read and check your synopses for accuracy and meaning

once you are certain you have it all in your head and fully understand the INTENT of it
it is time to find out what your poco specs are, search online and find them
mine encourages copying and sharing of all the info in their specs, they want ppl to know
the code denies being a teaching manual, but you can use it as one. i have done it more than once.

there should be some prints and drawings made by an archt or eng ,,, do not accept that job for yourself
do not accept the job of general contractor, continue to be the electrical contractor (service only at this point)
down here public building plans require a fire marshal stamp before beginning bidding
at this point it is time to make a drawing of what you think will work, make it as detailed as possible
go back over the code and poco specs to ensure you are compliant
now with your drawing as good as you can make it, post it here for critique and suggestions
a pic of the wall where you want to mount it will help a lot, if it has been built
pics of the eqpmt or links will help also

finally go to the inspector and meet him. explain that you would like to do it this way and see if he thinks it will pass, also ask if he has any sort of check list or something
i found that when i do something unusual, the absolute best way to approach it is to get the inspector trying to help me at the beginning, he will tend to keep that attitude through the inspection process and continue to make helpful suggestions
if you wait till the end and ask him to pass something he may dig in his heels and nitpick you from then on

commercial construction requires a lot of knowledge and planning before you ever buy equipment
by the way if you do this, do it time and material (TM) there is no way you can bid this at your current level
keep in mind the material shortages for large and unusual equipment, do your best to use common eqpt.
Geez and people say I’m too wordy…
 
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