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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
This is probably a dumb question but here I am. I’m wiring up an in ground pool. I have a question regarding the pool light conduit.

With the amount of bends in the pvc the pool contractor put in the forming shell, I will exceed the 360 degree pipe rule by piping to the light jbox. Is there some sort of listed pull point I have to use? I don’t want to exceed 360 but something just doesn’t seam right using a pvc LB or something alike. I feel like the conduit body would need to be water tight to prevent possible leakage? Or am I simply overthinking this.

thanks
 

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680.24 Junction Boxes and Electrical Enclosures for Transformers or Ground-Fault Circuit Interrupters.
(A)Junction Boxes.

A junction box connected to a conduit that extends directly to a forming shell or mounting bracket of a no-niche luminaire shall meet the requirements of this section.
(1)Construction.
The junction box shall be listed, labeled, and identified as a swimming pool junction box and shall comply with the following conditions:

(1)Be equipped with threaded entries or hubs or a nonmetallic hub
(2)Be comprised of copper, brass, suitable plastic, or other approved corrosion-resistant material
(3)Be provided with electrical continuity between every connected metal conduit and the grounding terminals by means of copper, brass, or other approved corrosion-resistant metal that is integral with the box
(2)Installation.
Where the luminaire operates over the low voltage contact limit, the junction box location shall comply with (A)(2)(a) and (A)(2)(b). Where the luminaire operates at the low voltage contact limit or less, the junction box location shall be permitted to comply with (A)(2)(c).
(a) Vertical Spacing. The junction box shall be located not less than 100 mm (4 in.), measured from the inside of the bottom of the box, above the ground level, or pool deck, or not less than 200 mm (8 in.) above the maximum pool water level, whichever provides the greater elevation.
(b) Horizontal Spacing. The junction box shall be located not less than 1.2 m (4 ft) from the inside wall of the pool, unless separated from the pool by a solid fence, wall, or other permanent barrier.
(c) Flush Deck Box. If used on a lighting system operating at the low voltage contact limit or less, a flush deck box shall be permitted if both of the following conditions are met:

(1)An approved potting compound is used to fill the box to prevent the entrance of moisture.
(2)The flush deck box is located not less than 1.2 m (4 ft) from the inside wall of the pool.
(B)Other Enclosures.
An enclosure for a transformer, ground-fault circuit interrupter, or a similar device connected to a conduit that extends directly to a forming shell or mounting bracket of a no-niche luminaire shall meet the requirements of this section.
(1)Construction.
The enclosure shall be listed and labeled for the
purpose and meet the following requirements:

(1)Equipped with threaded entries or hubs or a nonmetallic hub
(2)Comprised of copper, brass, suitable plastic, or other approved corrosion-resistant material
(3)Provided with an approved seal, such as duct seal at the conduit connection, that prevents circulation of air between the conduit and the enclosures
(4)Provided with electrical continuity between every connected metal conduit and the grounding terminals by means of copper, brass, or other approved corrosion-resistant metal that is integral with the box
(2)Installation.
(a) Vertical Spacing. The enclosure shall be located not less than 100 mm (4 in.), measured from the inside of the bottom of the box, above the ground level, or pool deck, or not less than 200 mm (8 in.) above the maximum pool water level, whichever provides the greater elevation.
(b) Horizontal Spacing. The enclosure shall be located not less than 1.2 m (4 ft) from the inside wall of the pool, unless separated from the pool by a solid fence, wall, or other permanent barrier.
(C)Protection.
Junction boxes and enclosures mounted above the grade of the finished walkway around the pool shall not be located in the walkway unless afforded additional protection, such as by location under diving boards, adjacent to fixed structures, and the like.
(D)Grounding Terminals.
Junction boxes, transformer and power-supply enclosures, and ground-fault circuit-interrupter enclosures connected to a conduit that extends directly to a forming shell or mounting bracket of a no-niche luminaire shall be provided with a number of
grounding terminals that shall be no fewer than one more than the number of conduit entries.
(E)Strain Relief.
The termination of a flexible cord of an underwater luminaire within a junction box, transformer or power-supply enclosure, ground-fault circuit interrupter, or other enclosure shall be provided with a strain relief.
(F)Grounding.
The equipment grounding conductor terminals of a junction box, transformer enclosure, or other enclosure in the supply circuit to a wet-niche or no-niche luminaire and the field-wiring chamber of a dry-niche luminaire shall be connected to the equipment grounding terminal of the panelboard. This terminal shall be directly connected to the panelboard enclosure.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
680.24 Junction Boxes and Electrical Enclosures for Transformers or Ground-Fault Circuit Interrupters.
(A)Junction Boxes.

A junction box connected to a conduit that extends directly to a forming shell or mounting bracket of a no-niche luminaire shall meet the requirements of this section.
(1)Construction.
The junction box shall be listed, labeled, and identified as a swimming pool junction box and shall comply with the following conditions:

(1)Be equipped with threaded entries or hubs or a nonmetallic hub
(2)Be comprised of copper, brass, suitable plastic, or other approved corrosion-resistant material
(3)Be provided with electrical continuity between every connected metal conduit and the grounding terminals by means of copper, brass, or other approved corrosion-resistant metal that is integral with the box
(2)Installation.
Where the luminaire operates over the low voltage contact limit, the junction box location shall comply with (A)(2)(a) and (A)(2)(b). Where the luminaire operates at the low voltage contact limit or less, the junction box location shall be permitted to comply with (A)(2)(c).
(a) Vertical Spacing. The junction box shall be located not less than 100 mm (4 in.), measured from the inside of the bottom of the box, above the ground level, or pool deck, or not less than 200 mm (8 in.) above the maximum pool water level, whichever provides the greater elevation.
(b) Horizontal Spacing. The junction box shall be located not less than 1.2 m (4 ft) from the inside wall of the pool, unless separated from the pool by a solid fence, wall, or other permanent barrier.
(c) Flush Deck Box. If used on a lighting system operating at the low voltage contact limit or less, a flush deck box shall be permitted if both of the following conditions are met:

(1)An approved potting compound is used to fill the box to prevent the entrance of moisture.
(2)The flush deck box is located not less than 1.2 m (4 ft) from the inside wall of the pool.
(B)Other Enclosures.
An enclosure for a transformer, ground-fault circuit interrupter, or a similar device connected to a conduit that extends directly to a forming shell or mounting bracket of a no-niche luminaire shall meet the requirements of this section.
(1)Construction.
The enclosure shall be listed and labeled for the
purpose and meet the following requirements:

(1)Equipped with threaded entries or hubs or a nonmetallic hub
(2)Comprised of copper, brass, suitable plastic, or other approved corrosion-resistant material
(3)Provided with an approved seal, such as duct seal at the conduit connection, that prevents circulation of air between the conduit and the enclosures
(4)Provided with electrical continuity between every connected metal conduit and the grounding terminals by means of copper, brass, or other approved corrosion-resistant metal that is integral with the box
(2)Installation.
(a) Vertical Spacing. The enclosure shall be located not less than 100 mm (4 in.), measured from the inside of the bottom of the box, above the ground level, or pool deck, or not less than 200 mm (8 in.) above the maximum pool water level, whichever provides the greater elevation.
(b) Horizontal Spacing. The enclosure shall be located not less than 1.2 m (4 ft) from the inside wall of the pool, unless separated from the pool by a solid fence, wall, or other permanent barrier.
(C)Protection.
Junction boxes and enclosures mounted above the grade of the finished walkway around the pool shall not be located in the walkway unless afforded additional protection, such as by location under diving boards, adjacent to fixed structures, and the like.
(D)Grounding Terminals.
Junction boxes, transformer and power-supply enclosures, and ground-fault circuit-interrupter enclosures connected to a conduit that extends directly to a forming shell or mounting bracket of a no-niche luminaire shall be provided with a number of
grounding terminals that shall be no fewer than one more than the number of conduit entries.
(E)Strain Relief.
The termination of a flexible cord of an underwater luminaire within a junction box, transformer or power-supply enclosure, ground-fault circuit interrupter, or other enclosure shall be provided with a strain relief.
(F)Grounding.
The equipment grounding conductor terminals of a junction box, transformer enclosure, or other enclosure in the supply circuit to a wet-niche or no-niche luminaire and the field-wiring chamber of a dry-niche luminaire shall be connected to the equipment grounding terminal of the panelboard. This terminal shall be directly connected to the panelboard enclosure.
Yes I’ve read through all of that already. Unless I missed something this specifies that it must be at a certain height ie 8” above water etc etc. My point is I can not get the conduit there without exceeding 360. Wasn’t sure if there was some type of listed pull point.
 

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The first sentence says “A junction box connected to a conduit that extends directly to a forming shell or mounting bracket of a no-niche luminaire shall meet the requirements of this section.”
So basically you need the same type box you are already piping to. Might as well find another spot for the same box you are already using.
 

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How long is the factory cord on the light and how long is the conduit run. First splice must be into a listed pool light box. Any ones that we installed had the pool light boxes directly behind the light, usually under a diving board or a little further back into some shrubbery. Although most of the ones I installed were installed before PVC was listed for pool lights in the code book. We had to use brass conduit into the forming shells. Many motels come into mind.
 

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Yes I’ve read through all of that already. Unless I missed something this specifies that it must be at a certain height ie 8” above water etc etc. My point is I can not get the conduit there without exceeding 360. Wasn’t sure if there was some type of listed pull point.
This is the part you are looking for.

680.23 Underwater Luminaires.
(B)Wet-Niche Luminaires.
(2)Wiring Extending Directly to the Forming Shell.

Conduit shall be installed from the forming shell to a junction box or other enclosure conforming to the requirements in 680.24.

that then refers you to the section about junction boxes posted above
 

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There is nothing that I am aware of that you can use to change that. The light JB would need to be installed in a different location.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
How long is the factory cord on the light and how long is the conduit run. First splice must be into a listed pool light box. Any ones that we installed had the pool light boxes directly behind the light, usually under a diving board or a little further back into some shrubbery. Although most of the ones I installed were installed before PVC was listed for pool lights in the code book. We had to use brass conduit into the forming shells. Many motels come into mind.
How long is the factory cord on the light and how long is the conduit run. First splice must be into a listed pool light box. Any ones that we installed had the pool light boxes directly behind the light, usually under a diving board or a little further back into some shrubbery. Although most of the ones I installed were installed before PVC was listed for pool lights in the code book. We had to use brass conduit into the forming shells. Many motels come into mind.
It’s 100’ but that’s not the issue. It’s a shore town. Neighbors yard is 2 feet away from end of pool where the light is. Conduit comes out parallell with the side of pool. There are 3 90s in the gunite of the pool. Only have one more to work with is the issue.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
This is probably a dumb question but here I am. I’m wiring up an in ground pool. I have a question regarding the pool light conduit.

With the amount of bends in the pvc the pool contractor put in the forming shell, I will exceed the 360 degree pipe rule by piping to the light jbox. Is there some sort of listed pull point I have to use? I don’t want to exceed 360 but something just doesn’t seam right using a pvc LB or something alike. I feel like the conduit body would need to be water tight to prevent possible leakage? Or am I simply overthinking this.

thanks
Left out some information sorry. It’s an above ground pool built like it’s an in ground pool. All current conduit is encased in gunite. I physicall cannot get to the backside of the lights without destroying the pool. Looks to be 3 90s. Conduit comes out parallel with the pool. I need to get it away from the pool and up. So I’d have to get this thing to shoot into the crawl space and the jbox is mounted on a 45 degree angle. Which could work I guess if the crawl is deep enough
 

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It’s 100’ but that’s not the issue. It’s a shore town. Neighbors yard is 2 feet away from end of pool where the light is. Conduit comes out parallell with the side of pool. There are 3 90s in the gunite of the pool. Only have one more to work with is the issue.
sounds like you need to tell HO that whoever ran the conduit is the cause of the problem jbox they will now have.
if you have the room, you might try a slow long easy curve in the pipe to get you a little further and pour the soap to it when you pull it.

around here the pool lite is furnished with at least 100' cord, and is installed by the pool man. the pvc conduit from the shell is one stick straight out from the pool with the cord in it and the EC takes it from there. Usually all the way to the control center for the pumps and lite.
 

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Several things to keep inmind what ever you decide. The equipment grounding conductor cannot be spliced between the pool light junction box ( the deck box. ) and an approved grounding terminal in a panel or whatever. Continuous and insulated. You cannot use the PVC to support the PVC deck box and schedule 80 PVC is required for many deck boxes.
 

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Left out some information sorry. It’s an above ground pool built like it’s an in ground pool. All current conduit is encased in gunite. I physicall cannot get to the backside of the lights without destroying the pool. Looks to be 3 90s. Conduit comes out parallel with the pool. I need to get it away from the pool and up. So I’d have to get this thing to shoot into the crawl space and the jbox is mounted on a 45 degree angle. Which could work I guess if the crawl is deep enough
The box MUST be above the maximum waterline. The wet nitche fixture is filled with pool water along with your conduit. If the box is not above the waterline the pool will drain out through the conduit or any leaky fittings.
 

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around here the pool lite is furnished with at least 100' cord, and is installed by the pool man. the pvc conduit from the shell is one stick straight out from the pool with the cord in it and the EC takes it from there. Usually all the way to the control center for the pumps and lite.
Same here . And its 12 volts . , black and white with an outer sheath no ground wire
 

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Same here . And its 12 volts . , black and white with an outer sheath no ground wire
The originals in the 70s and 80s were 12 volts and and had a 300 watt sealed beam that actually looked like a round car headlight. Only problem was length of long runs. 300w divided by 12v = 25 amps before voltage drop. Usually meant #8s or #6s to feed them.
 
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