Electrician Talk banner

1 - 15 of 15 Posts

·
Beam Me Up Scotty
Joined
·
2,361 Posts
I'd say yes... GFCI protection is required.

I'd consider it at minimum, a damp location as per the definition, but I'd install a GFCI to protect myself and the client.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
69 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
I'd say yes... GFCI protection is required.

I'd consider it at minimum, a damp location as per the definition, but I'd install a GFCI to protect myself and the client.
This was a question... how many receptacles in this picture require GFCI protection? I initially thought 2, excluding the porch and the soffit receptacle but the porch is considered as of the rule.. so its 3?
 

Attachments

·
Light Bender
Joined
·
5,835 Posts
The answer is two GFI protected outlets.

A soffit is definitely above 2.5 meters so no GFI required, and a receptacle on a porch is not considered accessible from the ground so no GFI there either.

Code requires one outside accessible from ground and one on the porch. The assumption is someone using an appliance on the ground, like a lawn mower, would be using the more accessible receptacle and not the one on the porch.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
120 Posts
So the exposed porch needs an in-use cover plate, weather resistance, tamper resistant, and arc fault receptacle, but not a GFCI?

I don't see a direct code clause that says otherwise... but i don't like it.

The interpretation i'd use of Annex B of 26-722 would imply that a deck floor surface is as a similar situation to the finished grade in these types of cases.

That said, i'm no building inspector.

... unless the porch receptacle isn't exposed?
 

·
Light Bender
Joined
·
5,835 Posts
So the exposed porch needs an in-use cover plate, weather resistance, tamper resistant, and arc fault receptacle, but not a GFCI?

I don't see a direct code clause that says otherwise... but i don't like it.

The interpretation i'd use of Annex B of 26-722 would imply that a deck floor surface is as a similar situation to the finished grade in these types of cases.

That said, i'm no building inspector.

... unless the porch receptacle isn't exposed?
It’s all about if it is accessible from grade or not.

What about a balcony 3 meters off the ground. Yes it needs a weather proof cover, AFCI protection, tamper proof etc, but no need for GFI protection. GFI protection for receptacles outside at a dwelling is to protect someone while using an appliance on the ground only. Same on a porch, especially when there is a required GFI receptacle accessible from ground as well.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
69 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
So the exposed porch needs an in-use cover plate, weather resistance, tamper resistant, and arc fault receptacle, but not a GFCI?

I don't see a direct code clause that says otherwise... but i don't like it.

The interpretation i'd use of Annex B of 26-722 would imply that a deck floor surface is as a similar situation to the finished grade in these types of cases.

That said, i'm no building inspector.

... unless the porch receptacle isn't exposed?
It’s all about if it is accessible from grade or not.

What about a balcony 3 meters off the ground. Yes it needs a weather proof cover, AFCI protection, tamper proof etc, but no need for GFI protection. GFI protection for receptacles outside at a dwelling is to protect someone while using an appliance on the ground only. Same on a porch, especially when there is a required GFI receptacle accessible from ground as well.
I agree, only thing is they dont clarify **** all about if the porch is accessible from grade or not. So we just assume it is not? Or more cases than not it isnt accessible from grade?
 

·
Light Bender
Joined
·
5,835 Posts
I agree, only thing is they dont clarify **** all about if the porch is accessible from grade or not. So we just assume it is not? Or more cases than not it isnt accessible from grade?
For the C of Q question, honestly, you will never know. They don’t tell you which questions you got right or wrong.

Agree they should be more clear in the question.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
120 Posts
It’s all about if it is accessible from grade or not.

What about a balcony 3 meters off the ground. Yes it needs a weather proof cover, AFCI protection, tamper proof etc, but no need for GFI protection. GFI protection for receptacles outside at a dwelling is to protect someone while using an appliance on the ground only. Same on a porch, especially when there is a required GFI receptacle accessible from ground as well.
The understanding i've gathered from various authorities and the few involved with code writing is that GFIs are to be needed where operating in wet locations. IMO there's no real difference from a receptacle at grade vs at patio if they're both exposed to rain and the primary receptacle use is that space. There some product standards that evaluate differently if near grade due to sprinklers, but otherwise they're primarily defined by location only.

I'm not saying code requires it because it doesn't, only the implied intention and by what i'd like in my place. There's a fair number of oddities in minimum codes that are similar that way.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
443 Posts
Do porch receptacles need gfci protection, the cec handbook says yes... but does thismwan its required when its not totally enclosed or no?
Why wouldn’t you do it anyway just to be safe... is the client refusing to pay for it? Just curious.
 

·
Light Bender
Joined
·
5,835 Posts
They are required near sinks, Yet GFI protection is only required outside of residential occupancies, not outside of any other type of occupancy. Always found that Odd

If I wired houses, it would be a no brainer, I would just put in the $10 GFI receptacle, no big deal.

As for helping someone answer a C of Q question, code does not require it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
443 Posts
He said it was an exam question.

I sell GFCI protection for porch receptacles all the time.
Here's how to remember it: Outside=GFCI
Simple right?
My bad... I should have slowed down and read it more carefully.
 
1 - 15 of 15 Posts
Top