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Master Electrician
Joined
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2,683 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
150' of 12/2 MC
6 MC connectors
40 3/8 MC clips
1 - 2pole 20A QO breaker
2 - 20 amp tandem QO breakers
1 - 4" x 2-1/8 box
1 - 120/277v double pole switch
1 - 4" switch army cover
2 - 3/4"-1/2" reducing washers
1 - 90 degree MC connector
20 - MC beam clamps (caddy makes them not sure on the model number)


MC runs up sheetrock wall about 20 feet in the air then over to follow a large I beam then down a wooden post to the switch

i figured about 6 hours. 4 to do the job and 2 for office/estimating/gathering materials

my price was 1,000 dollars. same job i priced 1,500 for EMT
 

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Master Electrician
Joined
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2,683 Posts
Discussion Starter · #2 ·
I also like to add that the job is located on the 4th floor of a mill that has stairs sized for children. They used to use child labor at this mill. There is stuff all over the place so it might be hard to get a ladder around, Theres open wiring on insulators although i dont know if its live still and you will be standing on a ladder about 15 - 20 feet up. Plus there is no AC and it was about 90 degrees on the floor in there
 

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Small Potatoes
Joined
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5,516 Posts
Based on my overhead and desired profit, the absolute minimum we would price this job is $2,700.

This price does not necessarily take into consideration what you wrote in your last post.

Depending on the degree of difficulty it might be 3-4 hundred dollars more.
 

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Master Electrician
Joined
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2,683 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Based on my overhead and desired profit, the absolute minimum we would price this job is $2,700.

This price does not necessarily take into consideration what you wrote in your last post.

Depending on the degree of difficulty it might be 3-4 hundred dollars more.
how did you price that job out?
 

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Small Potatoes
Joined
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5,516 Posts
how did you price that job out?
I run a 17 truck operation so sending you my formulae (which is somewhere around 30 pages) wouldn't do you any good.

Here’s how to figure your selling price for a one truck operation (you in the truck, no employees): Copy and paste this into Word, Excel or program of choice.

Note: This formula is for residential/light commercial service work (no new construction) using flat rate pricing.

Billable Hour: A billable hour is the actual time during the workday when income is produced. FACT: Your total billable hours for one year will not exceed 1,000 hours.
4 (hours a day) x 5 (days a week) x 50 (weeks) = 1,000 hours/yr.
Total Billable Hours/Year: 1,000 Hrs. Don’t make this higher, it very accurate.

Selling Price:This is the hourly amount you must charge as the labor component of your flat rate pricing. It does not include material. Include material in your flat rate pricing and mark it up whatever amount you desire (or not). You’re really selling your labor, so if you sell your parts & equipment at cost (including freight & taxes) it really doesn’t matter. What matters is selling your billable labor hour. Here’s how to calculate the selling price.

OVERHEAD ITEMS: Fill in amounts and total it on line 36.

A word about owner’s salary: Consider what you could be paid in a year if you worked for a reputable company, that pays what you are worth, as a tradesman and offers a bonus based on performance. It is not uncommon for some to earn upwards of 70-80,000/yr. or more. Do not sell yourself short, even in the first year of business. As a business owner you should pay yourself at least 80k/yr and more like 100k/yr. treat your salary as a business expense.

1. Owner’s Salary __________________
2. Advertising - YP ___________________
3. Advertising – Other ___________________
4. Answering Service ___________________
5. Bad Dept ___________________
6. Bank Charges ___________________
7. C.P.A. ___________________
8. Call Backs ___________________
9. Cellular Phone ___________________
10. Computer Expense ___________________
11. Credit Card Fees ___________________
12. Donations ___________________
13. Dues/Subscriptions ___________________
14. Educational Expense __________________
15. Gasoline Expense __________________
16. Health Insurance ___________________
17. Insurance – Truck ___________________
18. Insurance – Contractors ________________
19. Insurance – Umbrella __________________
20. Insurance – Workers Comp ______________
21. Legal Expense ___________________
22. Office Supplies ___________________
23. Payroll Company ___________________
24. Payroll Burden ___________________
25. Postage Expense __________________
26. Rent & Taxes ___________________
27. Retirement/401k ___________________
28. Telephone ___________________
29. Tool Repair/Replace ____________________
30. Travel & Entertain ____________________
31. Truck Expense ___________________
32. Truck Maintenance ____________________
33. Unforeseen Items ____________________
34. Uniform Service _____________________
35. Utilities _____________________

36. Total Yearly Expenses ___________________

37. Expenses Divided by 1,000 B/H = _____________ (This is your break even (B/E) price –
NO PROFIT!

20% PROFIT ON TOP OF BREAK EVEN COST: This is a standard acceptable profit, please don’t short change yourself. Enter the breakeven number from above and divide by .80 to get your selling price.

__________________Divided by .80 = CORRECT Selling Price Of______________/hour
Enter break even number here
B/E Cost = 80% Of Selling Price


The above list of expenses is only a representation of expenses and may not include all expenses. Be sure to add any and all additional expenses you may incur.
 

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Conduit Extraordinare
Joined
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2,363 Posts
150' of 12/2 MC
6 MC connectors
40 3/8 MC clips
1 - 2pole 20A QO breaker
2 - 20 amp tandem QO breakers
1 - 4" x 2-1/8 box
1 - 120/277v double pole switch
1 - 4" switch army cover
2 - 3/4"-1/2" reducing washers
1 - 90 degree MC connector
20 - MC beam clamps (caddy makes them not sure on the model number)


MC runs up sheetrock wall about 20 feet in the air then over to follow a large I beam then down a wooden post to the switch

i figured about 6 hours. 4 to do the job and 2 for office/estimating/gathering materials

my price was 1,000 dollars. same job i priced 1,500 for EMT
Quick calculated guess, I do not have my estimating program available.

$1,869.00 in EMT - standard time. Premium time is not included.

How far do you have to run on the beam? I assumed 150' total for conduit. I also asumed a man lift. I do not know if one would fit...

If this is working off of a ladder, add some extra time for that..

I am doing a factory job now, on premium time as it is on the production floor, It is going as I figured (better, actually, but it is not complete yet), but it is amazing how slow work goes when you are working on a production floor, up in the air. Don't forget, if you need something moved, it will take some time to get it accomplished....
 

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RIP 1959-2015
Joined
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39,532 Posts
that makes sense why its so expensive. i thought i was pricing out wrong again. i probably am but thats besides the point :)
Thats why we are here so we can learn to price it out right.:)


Flyboy has a good system going...:thumbsup:
 

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Master Electrician
Joined
·
2,683 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Quick calculated guess, I do not have my estimating program available.

$1,869.00 in EMT - standard time. Premium time is not included.

How far do you have to run on the beam? I assumed 150' total for conduit. I also asumed a man lift. I do not know if one would fit...

If this is working off of a ladder, add some extra time for that..

I am doing a factory job now, on premium time as it is on the production floor, It is going as I figured (better, actually, but it is not complete yet), but it is amazing how slow work goes when you are working on a production floor, up in the air. Don't forget, if you need something moved, it will take some time to get it accomplished....
the beam is about 50 - 60 feet long and there is a lot of stuff in the way but she is able to move it all.
 

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Master Electrician
Joined
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2,683 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 ·
to be honest for whatever reason when i price out the job and add overhead and profit and all the stuff im supposed to add if it comes out high i feel like im not worth it. i am a good electrician and do great work and know what im doing but for whatever reason i feel bad about charging 1500 dollars to run EMT. i dont know why. im sure ill get over it
 

·
RIP 1959-2015
Joined
·
39,532 Posts
to be honest for whatever reason when i price out the job and add overhead and profit and all the stuff im supposed to add if it comes out high i feel like im not worth it. i am a good electrician and do great work and know what im doing but for whatever reason i feel bad about charging 1500 dollars to run EMT. i dont know why. im sure ill get over it
You better get over it or you will not survive in business.


Remember we are all gun shy because of this economic depression so don't feel like you are not worth it because you are you have worked hard to get this far and derserve to get your profit from your blood sweat and tears.

Remember that boss you have night mares about??:eek:

You don't want to go back to that crap again...:rolleyes:
 

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Master Electrician
Joined
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2,683 Posts
Discussion Starter · #16 ·
You better get over it or you will not survive in business.


Remember we are all gun shy because of this economic depression so don't feel like you are not worth it because you are you have worked hard to get this far and derserve to get your profit from your blood sweat and tears.

Remember that boss you have night mares about??:eek:

You don't want to go back to that crap again...:rolleyes:
What do you do when people cry poverty and say your price is too high?
 

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Conduit Extraordinare
Joined
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2,363 Posts
What do you do when people cry poverty and say your price is too high?
Because most of them are employees.

Most people do not save any money. They spend it all.

If you spend all your money, and make what ever you make. Coming up with $2000 for a service change would present a problem.

"I only get paid $25 an hour. How am I suppose to pay you $100?"

We've all heard it before, I am sure.

Some of the best advice I've heard on this site;

1. Don't breakdown estimates/invoices into hourly rates.
2. Accept credit cards

Those two items alone will help negate a lot of that. When people spend with plastic, it is easier to spend. When they have to write out a check, or count out cash, it is much more emotional and thought provoking.
 

·
Conduit Extraordinare
Joined
·
2,363 Posts
to be honest for whatever reason when i price out the job and add overhead and profit and all the stuff im supposed to add if it comes out high i feel like im not worth it. i am a good electrician and do great work and know what im doing but for whatever reason i feel bad about charging 1500 dollars to run EMT. i dont know why. im sure ill get over it

We are all worth a lot more than we think we are. Just ask ourselves...

:laughing:

Seriously though, we all cut ourselves short sometimes. I do it when it comes to estimating for people I know. When it is a business or someone I do not know, It is easier to price appropriately. I am a nice guy, sometimes too nice. But, I need to be nice to myself and provide what my family needs before I can afford to be "nice."
 

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Master Electrician
Joined
·
2,683 Posts
Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Because most of them are employees.

Most people do not save any money. They spend it all.

If you spend all your money, and make what ever you make. Coming up with $2000 for a service change would present a problem.

"I only get paid $25 an hour. How am I suppose to pay you $100?"

We've all heard it before, I am sure.

Some of the best advice I've heard on this site;

1. Don't breakdown estimates/invoices into hourly rates.
2. Accept credit cards

Those two items alone will help negate a lot of that. When people spend with plastic, it is easier to spend. When they have to write out a check, or count out cash, it is much more emotional and thought provoking.
i learned the hard way not to break down estimates. they always say they can get the parts cheaper at home depot. i just started yesterday accepting credit cards with my phone
 

·
Conduit Extraordinare
Joined
·
2,363 Posts
I run a 17 truck operation so sending you my formulae (which is somewhere around 30 pages) wouldn't do you any good.

Here’s how to figure your selling price for a one truck operation (you in the truck, no employees): Copy and paste this into Word, Excel or program of choice.

Note: This formula is for residential/light commercial service work (no new construction) using flat rate pricing.

Billable Hour: A billable hour is the actual time during the workday when income is produced. FACT: Your total billable hours for one year will not exceed 1,000 hours.
4 (hours a day) x 5 (days a week) x 50 (weeks) = 1,000 hours/yr.
Total Billable Hours/Year: 1,000 Hrs. Don’t make this higher, it very accurate.

Selling Price:This is the hourly amount you must charge as the labor component of your flat rate pricing. It does not include material. Include material in your flat rate pricing and mark it up whatever amount you desire (or not). You’re really selling your labor, so if you sell your parts & equipment at cost (including freight & taxes) it really doesn’t matter. What matters is selling your billable labor hour. Here’s how to calculate the selling price.

OVERHEAD ITEMS: Fill in amounts and total it on line 36.

A word about owner’s salary: Consider what you could be paid in a year if you worked for a reputable company, that pays what you are worth, as a tradesman and offers a bonus based on performance. It is not uncommon for some to earn upwards of 70-80,000/yr. or more. Do not sell yourself short, even in the first year of business. As a business owner you should pay yourself at least 80k/yr and more like 100k/yr. treat your salary as a business expense.

1. Owner’s Salary __________________
2. Advertising - YP ___________________
3. Advertising – Other ___________________
4. Answering Service ___________________
5. Bad Dept ___________________
6. Bank Charges ___________________
7. C.P.A. ___________________
8. Call Backs ___________________
9. Cellular Phone ___________________
10. Computer Expense ___________________
11. Credit Card Fees ___________________
12. Donations ___________________
13. Dues/Subscriptions ___________________
14. Educational Expense __________________
15. Gasoline Expense __________________
16. Health Insurance ___________________
17. Insurance – Truck ___________________
18. Insurance – Contractors ________________
19. Insurance – Umbrella __________________
20. Insurance – Workers Comp ______________
21. Legal Expense ___________________
22. Office Supplies ___________________
23. Payroll Company ___________________
24. Payroll Burden ___________________
25. Postage Expense __________________
26. Rent & Taxes ___________________
27. Retirement/401k ___________________
28. Telephone ___________________
29. Tool Repair/Replace ____________________
30. Travel & Entertain ____________________
31. Truck Expense ___________________
32. Truck Maintenance ____________________
33. Unforeseen Items ____________________
34. Uniform Service _____________________
35. Utilities _____________________

36. Total Yearly Expenses ___________________

37. Expenses Divided by 1,000 B/H = _____________ (This is your break even (B/E) price –
NO PROFIT!

20% PROFIT ON TOP OF BREAK EVEN COST: This is a standard acceptable profit, please don’t short change yourself. Enter the breakeven number from above and divide by .80 to get your selling price.

__________________Divided by .80 = CORRECT Selling Price Of______________/hour
Enter break even number here
B/E Cost = 80% Of Selling Price


The above list of expenses is only a representation of expenses and may not include all expenses. Be sure to add any and all additional expenses you may incur.

How does this work when you are bidding a construction job?

Do you use the same rate for construction and flat rate service?
 
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