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PRO Act

4K views 66 replies 10 participants last post by  TGGT 
#1 ·
Congress reintroduced this bill. Here is a summary of what it is.

 
#3 ·
I didn't hear anything in that clip that suggested you can not choose. I didn't hear anything about restricting right to work laws.
 
#8 ·
Do you believe investors will keep investing in the U.S. if you keep trying to strong arm them? It's a big world out there, look what unions did to the U.S. in recent history, look back from the 20s until now, no more made in USA. There are many countries like France that are moving away from socialist policies after seeing the ill effects, and investors are flocking to them leaving the U.S..

Capital is easy to move, easier than it is for workers.

I support bettering workers, I support bettering everyone, I don't believe your tact is effective though.

Just look for better employers or better yet work for yourself, I live in the rust belt that had a hay day up until about the late 50s with unions, I worked through the IBEW. My opinion, the labor unions in the U.S. are a burden and more to the workers than investors, slowing progress, the better jobs around here are non-union hands down, unions are pretty much dead around here now and no-one is looking back.

I don't believe in banning unions, if you want to be union I believe you should be able to, and the employer be allowed to not agree to a labor agreement, but I don't think they work long term.
 
#11 ·
The truth is that our trade policies with China, negotiated by politicians taking legalized bribes from China, did more to hurt US unions in manufacturing the last 30 years than anything. The last four years, US manufacturing has made headway due to more reasonable tariffs, the only reversal in the trend since, well, ever. In time unions would gain ground in manufacturing. If our trade policies revert to those favored by China's bought and paid for, manufacturing is again ****ed.

As for the industries that actually have employees - I don't think Amazon etc. are the least worried about organizing one distribution center at a time.

The industry that needs unionization most urgently, in my opinion, is health care, and you can't blame this one on the Chinese. The rise of health care to the nation's number one industry - 18% of the US economy - is an unprecedented economic disaster and it's going to get worse as consolidation continues in that industry. With near monopoly status and those legalized bribes again, watch what happens. Now that health care has squeezed as much as possible out of you in costs / insurance, that industry's bean counters has started turning the screws on their care providers - nurses, therapists, and yes doctors. That squeeze will further deteriorate patient care.

Legislation that gives organized health care labor some real bargaining power would be a real help. It's a difficult issue because without the option to strike, how do they get any leverage in bargaining?
 
#14 ·
Has that been working?

Hospitals around here have like half the staff overnight that they had 10-15 years ago for the same or greater patient census. You can paste that on Facebook all day and night, and hospitas won't hire one more nurse.

The Amazon warehouses pay order pickers / packers etc. jack, the conditions are fairly lousy, I don't think Amazon's worried about their worker's posts affecting sales.
 
#13 ·
How does one organize the illegal immigrants working in construction? I have seen over the last three years more and more work going out to foreign workers. Out of state plates, sneakers or sandels, same clothes every day. Not just Spanish but all back grounds. They are not just the workers but the owners of the company. If the legitimate companies are forced to go union then the illegitimate companies will take over the residential market. Homeowners want cheap.
 
#15 ·
I think a lot of people are in favor of loose enforcement of immigration laws not because they have big hearts and openly welcome immigrants, but because they like having an exploitable underclass they can underpay and who will hesitate to report their infractions for safety, labor laws, etc.
 
#16 ·
If we could actually trust the government in states and at the federal level, people wouldn’t feel the need to unionize. The corruption still exists at all levels, everywhere. The union bosses are millionaires too, just like legislators.

The weirdest thing I’ve come across lately are the federal employee unions, and they are recruiting workers. I looked into it, and it seems like more of a scam than anything.
 
#17 ·
The status quo for decades has been chipping away at collective bargaining power and the right to organize under Republicans, and lulls under Democratic administrations where not a whole lot happens.

Now here we are with an opportunity to do something different, and we're still hearing the same old songs from the bosses about how it's bad for workers.

Union membership was 35% in the 1950's. The country did not turn into Venezuela.

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#19 ·
It's easy to say that when you haven't be part of one. There's no irony in conservatives being part of my local. They recognize they get better pay, working conditions and stability.

This is not to say unions are blameless, and it's not to say a person can't do better than what they have to offer, but overall for the majority of people it's a higher standard than many of the alternatives.

Nationally we are denied minimum wage increases, denied universal healthcare, denied universal college, our labor departments have been gutted and twisted by anti-union lawyers.

Our local provides cadillac insurance, higher minimum wages with frequent wage increases, our apprentices are just a few classes away from a 2 year degree when they turn out, and most of our contractors embrace a culture of safe efficient work habits, and we usually have a steward to smooth out conflicts.

Mass unionization could help alleviate the societal stresses we are experiencing and raise everyone's standard of living and it would still incentivize WORK.

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#34 ·
I think with all this back and forth with union vs non-union we have to keep in mind we are all imperfect as the systems in place. Everybody has their own experience with a union. I use to think unions were good, and still do, but in my case I got screwed by them. I also see a lot of hypocrisy with them. UNION members can have an electrical license and have a shop on the side while working for a union shop, but I cannot work on a union job?
I just heard that Amazon, one of the richest companies in the world, is fighting the union. Their employees have no benefits, low wages, and high pressure. There is a perfect example of where a union is needed. Ironically when it comes to voting for unionization, Amazon wants voter ID because of voter fraud.
 
#40 · (Edited)
I think with all this back and forth with union vs non-union we have to keep in mind we are all imperfect as the systems in place. Everybody has their own experience with a union. I use to think unions were good, and still do, but in my case I got screwed by them. I also see a lot of hypocrisy with them. UNION members can have an electrical license and have a shop on the side while working for a union shop, but I cannot work on a union job?
I just heard that Amazon, one of the richest companies in the world, is fighting the union. Their employees have no benefits, low wages, and high pressure. There is a perfect example of where a union is needed. Ironically when it comes to voting for unionization, Amazon wants voter ID because of voter fraud.
Own a nonunion electrical shop on the side and work as a union member? No. That would not be allowed unless the member was working hand in hand with the union to build a union shop, or cut into the market share of nonunion employers or some tactic or program. You cannot work on a union job as a nonunion worker unless the union cannot provide the shop with the labor it needs - but then you have to be represented by the union, get paid union scale, follow the contract, and enjoy the union benefits, without joining.

Yea, Amazon, in Alabama no less, is experiencing some labor strife as an entire distribution center is fed up with them. The NLRB just ruled the vote will happen, in Alabama no less. Who'da thunk it? And considering the state of this union it will be interesting to see how this plays out, because if Amazon pushes too hard it could be just the catalyst needed for this new trend of mass-organization being pushed lately... I suspect Amazon will just let it happen and then slowly divert orders shipped from that warehouse to others until it's closed.

I am not absolving unions of all wrongdoing, I have seen some really over the top BS. One thing I see as a major problem, corporations probably conceded a little too much when things were booming and the rest of the developed world was rebuilding after WWII. They entered into contracts that would not be sustainable. Hindsight is 20/20, but if unions had made some concessions, and the federal regulators had put stronger incentives in place to keep production in the US, some of our hardest hit industries (steel, automotive, rail transport) would still be kicking ass today.
That's one way to look at it, but it's also the corporate fallacy that contracts were not sustainable or that contracts were too generous. Rail transport was not destroyed by unions. Rail workers didn't have gold toilet bowls. Concessions means workers shouldn't get decent wages, decent standards of living, medical coverage and pensions. Somehow though, CEOs could go from 7X the average worker pay to 70,000 times the average worker pay and nobody seems to have a problem with that.

The automotive industry in America was always profitable, save for some gaffs, attempts to really cheapen the costs of production and design to the point where premature failure was all but guaranteed - but that was an attempt to INCREASE profits. Moving to nonunion states was also an attempt to increase profits. Moving to Mexico was another. What's wrong with constant, consistant profits? It's not enough for psychopathic investors to make money, it always has to be more money. Why is it the American worker and family must suffer for the excesses of the 1%? Unions are greedy? Bad. Corporations are greedy? Good. How did that happen?

I believe that the employer will be required to comply with both federal and state minimum wage laws, so the effective minimum is the HIGHER of the two minimum wages.

However, the federal government considers itself exempt from state minimum wage requirements (see attachment):
Ah, yes. The good old Supremacy Clause. This is also why we are not bound by the NEC in any given state.
Thing is, the Federal government doesn't employ minimum wage lever workers. The Fed employs geologists, annalists, researchers, scientists, medical and industry and trade experts... there's no Federal McDonald's or .99 cent stores.
 
#35 ·
I am not absolving unions of all wrongdoing, I have seen some really over the top BS. One thing I see as a major problem, corporations probably conceded a little too much when things were booming and the rest of the developed world was rebuilding after WWII. They entered into contracts that would not be sustainable. Hindsight is 20/20, but if unions had made some concessions, and the federal regulators had put stronger incentives in place to keep production in the US, some of our hardest hit industries (steel, automotive, rail transport) would still be kicking ass today.
 
#50 ·
Solyndra, Isn't that the $750 million failed solar panel plant that was obsolete before the built it? What about the Buffalo Billion? The $980 million solar panel plant that NY State funded up in Buffalo, NY. It went belly up and Tesla took it over. A lot of the green energy stuff cannot be built in this country because of the pollution standards. Especially batteries.
 
#51 ·
Yeah...we could do it in the US, it just wouldn't be financially viable. The projects would need huge government subsidies, giant unions, and a lot of other peoples' money (which would make other people multi-millionaires) and help people stay at minimum wage, just like the good old days. Be happy! You have a job...and owe your soul to the company store.
 
#55 ·
If Amazon is such a terrible place to work then why do so many people willingly work there? Why did they leave their old job for Amazon, Amazon has not been around very long.
Why don't they start their own small business and pay themselves as much as they want hourly and with as great of benefits as they want? I mean by the way you all talk, business owners and investors wipe their a$$es with 100's so why don't they start a business or start investing? Why are they all on $1,000 phones, paying ridiculous monthly phone bills to play candy crush, paying for netflix or cable out the nose......

Why don't they just save some of that wasted money and invest it, I mean the way you all describe it business owners and investors just put money in a machine and get 2x back every time while they are just sitting on the beach in tahiti, why don't whining workers just do that if it is so easy for owners and investors?

I have a theory, because people like you lie to them and tell them that they are victims, that it doesn't matter how hard they try, the system is rigged against them, that their only hope is a politician or union boss.

ANY one, ANY person in the United States of America has the opportunity for a great life, without anyone coming to save them, all on their own.

But ANYONE that listens to this victim, zero sum mindset bull$hit you are spreading, will be miserable bums no matter what you give them. There's no shining knight, no one is coming to save you, just get off your ass and use your head.
 
#58 ·
If Amazon is such a terrible place to work then why do so many people willingly work there? Why did they leave their old job for Amazon, Amazon has not been around very long.
Why don't they start their own small business and pay themselves as much as they want hourly and with as great of benefits as they want? I mean by the way you all talk, business owners and investors wipe their a$$es with 100's so why don't they start a business or start investing? Why are they all on $1,000 phones, paying ridiculous monthly phone bills to play candy crush, paying for netflix or cable out the nose......

Why don't they just save some of that wasted money and invest it, I mean the way you all describe it business owners and investors just put money in a machine and get 2x back every time while they are just sitting on the beach in tahiti, why don't whining workers just do that if it is so easy for owners and investors?

I have a theory, because people like you lie to them and tell them that they are victims, that it doesn't matter how hard they try, the system is rigged against them, that their only hope is a politician or union boss.

ANY one, ANY person in the United States of America has the opportunity for a great life, without anyone coming to save them, all on their own.

But ANYONE that listens to this victim, zero sum mindset bull$hit you are spreading, will be miserable bums no matter what you give them. There's no shining knight, no one is coming to save you, just get off your ass and use your head.
We got trump because of that gaslighting mindset. America isn't better for it, the country is very sick and more right wing rugged individualism won't fix it. FDR didn't pass the new deal because he was a socialist, he passed it to cull the growing socialist movement in the US.

My wife started her business out of necessity. Quality childcare was too expensive, part time work was too low paying, social security will not be enough to survive on. We took the risk out of desperation, not some entrepreneurial spirit.

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#67 ·
PRO Act passed the house.

Some of the things that the PRO Act would do include:


  • Creating monetary penalties against employers who try to illegally bust unions
  • Strengthening protections for workers who are wrongly fired during union organizing campaigns
  • Allowing workers to take employers to court when they’ve broken collective bargaining laws
  • Making it easier for newly formed unions to secure their first contracts
  • Bolstering workers’ rights related to strikes and boycotts
  • Overriding anti-union “right to work” laws that have now spread to a majority of states
  • Making it harder for companies like Uber to avoid unions by using “independent contractors”
 
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