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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
While making up a residential panel today my training jm used three neutrals on the neutral bar and i was under the impression it was two few seeing as there were nine home runs needing a minimum of four. He then told me that it was fine you could technically make up a panel on two neutrals as long as you don't put them on the same phase which he then re explained phases to me. He is probably right but another jm at our company said I was right and that the neutrals should be a minimum of half the home runs i.e. 10 home runs 5 neutrals. Now i don't know who is right and think it's pretty important. So in short who is right and why please. Thanks -D-
 

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corn-fused
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o.k., ill bite. and how would do two nuetrals not on the same phase?
 

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You are correct. You can overload the pigtail from the splice to the neutral bar if done his way.

There used to be something called super neutrals, which I have never used or even encountered in the field, but I guess the theory is you could have 4 20A circuits, 2 on each phase of a 120/240V single phase service, and run one #8 to account for the possible neutral load.
 

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Dmansee12 said:
While making up a residential panel today my training jm used three neutrals on the neutral bar and i was under the impression it was two few seeing as there were nine home runs needing a minimum of four. He then told me that it was fine you could technically make up a panel on two neutrals as long as you don't put them on the same phase which he then re explained phases to me. He is probably right but another jm at our company said I was right and that the neutrals should be a minimum of half the home runs i.e. 10 home runs 5 neutrals. Now i don't know who is right and think it's pretty important. So in short who is right and why please. Thanks -D-
If you are running MWBC, then a 2 pole breaker feeds two circuits with one neutral.
 

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Your post is a little confusing to me in the way you wrote it, it almost sounds like a 208Y/120 volt service.

What wiring method are you guys using? Conduit? NM? ??
 
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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Good to know I don't care about being right but i was afraid it was a safety issue. I didn't want to be that apprentice who told his jm he was wrong i hope the inspector catches it. When i said how can you not be on different phases running three neutrals to nine home runs he said it's not the neutrals you worry about just the hot. I suppose i should tell my boss? I don't know i don't want to be like that really awkward position for me.
 

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corn-fused
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You are correct. You can overload the pigtail from the splice to the neutral bar if done his way.

There used to be something called super neutrals, which I have never used or even encountered in the field, but I guess the theory is you could have 4 20A circuits, 2 on each phase of a 120/240V single phase service, and run one #8 to account for the possible neutral load.
they all go to the same nuetral on a single phase system. how do you make 2 go to one phase and 2 go to the other phase?
 

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I said minimum of four because there was a double pole 30 amp for a.c.
So how many circuits of the "9" home runs are MWBCs?

What is your wiring method?
 

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i was under the impression it was two few seeing as there were nine home runs needing a minimum of four.
9 home runs is confusing.

What is your wiring method?
 

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Ask the co worker (apprentice) if you can turn on all the loads, and put an amp clamp on there to see how much those neutrals are pulling. Make a bet with him.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
hardworkingstiff said:
9 home runs is confusing. What is your wiring method?
well i am not sure it was a service upgrade but it was a double pole 30 five single pole 20's 3 single pole 15's the 15's im assuming all mwbcs Accept the 30 and one 15 for the microwave but again not sure.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
dronai said:
Ask the co worker (apprentice) if you can turn on all the loads, and put an amp clamp on there to see how much those neutrals are pulling. Make a bet with him.
i like that. He is cocky so thats up his alley.
 

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Your post is a little confusing to me in the way you wrote it, it almost sounds like a 208Y/120 volt service.

What wiring method are you guys using? Conduit? NM? ??
This is what I thought right away. Old house out west, with an old ass 3phase system installed for an A/C system that no longer is installed. It would help if we knew if it was in pipe.
Your jman could still be right, so don't jump up to the plate yet pup. Gotta ask him some questions with a little bit of subtlety first.
 

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well i am not sure it was a service upgrade but it was a double pole 30 five single pole 20's 3 single pole 15's the 15's im assuming all mwbcs Accept the 30 and one 15 for the microwave but again not sure.
Let's back up. What does a MWBC mean to you (it's Multi Wire Branch Circuit), but that's not the answer I'm looking for. What is the difference between a MWBC and a regular circuit?
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Deep Cover said:
I was giving him the benefit of the doubt and assumed he meant the phase conductors associated with each neutral.
These were tails off of romex poking into the wall he tied the neutrals together in a junction box where the old panel was and pigtailed the five neutrals into 3. If that clarifies at all.
 

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This is what I thought right away. Old house out west, with an old ass 3phase system installed for an A/C system that no longer is installed. It would help if we knew if it was in pipe.
Your jman could still be right, so don't jump up to the plate yet pup. Gotta ask him some questions with a little bit of subtlety first.
3 phase for a Residence ? Haven't seen one around here yet. Even if it is, he only ran (2) neutrals. That would be good for 6 circuits on a 3 phase system, he is still 1 shy.
 
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