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Electrical Contractor
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Let's suppose that it maintains nominal +/- 5% range voltage, but it jumps around abruptly. If the specifications didn't require flicker or change in voltage over time, it would be "within specs" even though it's realistically unacceptable.


Most LEDs are *fluorescent technology* and phosphor decay is a major part of their degradation.

If you're talking about traditional gas discharge fluorescent lamps, I can confidently say that they have made major improvements in the past few years, such as 90,000 hr (12 hr per start) rated 32W T8 with lumen maintenance performance generally surpassing most LEDs.

You're referring to "for household use only" grade blender like LED apparatus rated on the L70 scale with degradation allowance that far exceeds 32W T8.

What we're talking about here is how lighting that should only be suitable for a gas station was applied in an office lighting.
I installed LED trims in a home office and it worked great! Probably helps it you use the correct light for the job. Same thing goes for fluorescents. It's important to install the correct CRI bulbs for the application. Can I get written guarantee that those bulbs will last 90,000 hours??? Show me a CFL that will last as long as the package tells you. Show me a HO that will keep track of the operating hours of a CFL lamp and return it for replacement.
 

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I'll be laughing at all of you pro-LED guys a few years from now when they have dwindled to 60-70% of their initial lumen output.
We've had our LED stop lights running 24/7/365 for at least 10 years & they're just now starting to lose diodes.

Keep in mind I live in Texas where surface temperatures on those stop lights can fry an egg in under under a minute in July & August.

They won't use them up north because there isn't enough wasted energy produced by the LED's to melt snow.
 

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We've had our LED stop lights running 24/7/365 for at least 10 years & they're just now starting to lose diodes.

Keep in mind I live in Texas where surface temperatures on those stop lights can fry an egg in under under a minute in July & August.

They won't use them up north because there isn't enough wasted energy produced by the LED's to melt snow.
The majority of high power LED's (the kind used in commercial lighting being pushed now) will be dead long before the 10 year mark.
 

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The majority of high power LED's (the kind used in commercial lighting being pushed now) will be dead long before the 10 year mark.
Then I guess every recognizable landmark in the US & across the world is in for a rude awakening...even the Hoover Dam which Rab just upgraded.

You can dog on LED's all you want, they're here to stay for the long run.

There is a reason you see manufacturers backing their products with 5-10 year warranties. They know "if" by the time those LED's happen to burn out before warranty technology will be 1,000 times advanced by then & production costs come down so much where they don't lose a dime giving you new fixtures.

New fixtures every 5 years? Sounds like a deal to me.

Can't get that with florescent or metal halide. Most I've seen is 3 years tops. Majority being 1 year or less.

Embrace it or fall by the wayside.
 

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No doubt, many property owners and managers will be incurring big maintenance costs to repair and replace failed drivers and LED modules.
Its the cost of doing big business & progression of a new technology we don't fully understand yet. The lower energy costs, rebates, & tax incentives now days are greater than the cost of the fixtures & maintenance its almost laughable not to go LED from what I understand.

In the meantime I guess you can keep polluting our air, water, & soil with spent HID bulbs & florescent tubes, unless, of course you are among the 1% who recycles them.
 

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Light Emitting Decoration
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Discussion Starter · #27 ·
Then I guess every recognizable landmark in the US & across the world is in for a rude awakening...even the Hoover Dam which Rab just upgraded.
Light emitting architectural decorations are not general purpose lighting.

You can dog on LED's all you want, they're here to stay for the long run.

There is a reason you see manufacturers backing their products with 5-10 year warranties. They know "if" by the time those LED's happen to burn out before warranty technology will be 1,000 times advanced by then & production costs come down so much where they don't lose a dime giving you new fixtures.

New fixtures every 5 years? Sounds like a deal to me.
"burn out" is obviously bad, but not including other conditions is a failure in specification requirement writing. Guarantee is only as good as the guarantor. Replacing a fixture is much more involved than a ballast replacement. Who's going to cover the cost of labor?

How do you know that (insert name LED brand) is going to be around to walk the talk 9 years later like Osram Sylvania, Advance-Philips and GE?

Fluorescent lamps are parts only, but ballasts generally include parts + limited labor(pre-approved or customary rate)

Can't get that with florescent or metal halide. Most I've seen is 3 years tops. Majority being 1 year or less.

Embrace it or fall by the wayside.
That's just incorrect.
 

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Light Emitting Decoration
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Discussion Starter · #28 ·
Its the cost of doing big business & progression of a new technology we don't fully understand yet. The lower energy costs, rebates, & tax incentives
Who do you think funds municipal spending, the war department and such?
 
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