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Elechicken!
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hey all,

Brother and I were having a discussion about a receptacle that I will be installing at a job for a welder.

We are running 6/3 NMD, on 50 amp OCPD, with a 6-50 receptacle.(6/3 if for futureproofing. We run a neutral most of the time, so that a 14-50 can be installed in the future)

Now, I know that 6-50 receptacles are not used exclusively welders. An EV charger can use a 6-50.

Our discussion was about wiring of the 6-50. I cannot recall if there is a rule (either Ontario or Canadian) that says a receptacle must be installed to it's rated amperage. The only rule I can recall is for a kitchen range receptacle, of which can be 40 amps.

Is there a rule that prohibits installing a 14-50 or 6-50 receptacle (or any other receptacles) on say a 20 or 30 amp breaker? Or are we permitted as long as we label the max amperage?

I was under the impression that the receptacle had to be installed to it's rated amperage, because it could be used for anything. (maybe that's a NEC code I am remembering...)

I know there's a whole section on welder receptacles, and up to 200% OCPD, blah blah blah, but we are discussing receptacles in general.

The receptacle is going in the garage of a rental home (of which the GC has decided to rent). There's nothing stopping him from getting a larger welder, but we are already planning for that... But I digress.

Anyway, if you could help settle this, that would be great.

Thanks,
Kevin
 

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Light Bender
plumber
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In the US you can put 15 amp receptacles on a 20 amp circuit for instance, but not in Canada.

Here only the range receptacle can have a different ampacity compared to the overcurrent. 26-744(4)+(5), or a welder receptacle 42-004

All other receptacles must be connected to their rated voltage and ampacity 26-700(2)
 

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Elechicken!
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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I have a 6-50r connected to a 2P40A breaker in my house, but I wouldn't do it anywhere else. Yes it's against code.

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I've installed welder receptacles on 30's and 40's, but never gotten paid to install them... my dad's being on of them. For a client it's to code or nothing.

In retrospect, I should have checked 26-700 before asking on here...

Sent from my new phone. Autocorrect may have changed stuff.
 

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Work Speaks for Itself
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..

To the best of my knowledge, the entire point of certain sections is to make sure your installation is "safe". However, this could and does mean future use... but the main sticking point is; your wire size could be way oversized and your receptacle way undersized... its all ok so long as the OCD is sized to the receptacle and not more.


**This must be a single circuit/single device. Because the tempation to tap off it for something else is to great for some other A-hole handyman, and throw a larger brkr in there.
 

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**This must be a single circuit/single device. Because the tempation to tap off it for something else is to great for some other A-hole handyman, and throw a larger brkr in there.
What makes a single dedicated circuit less tempting to a hack than a multi-outlet circuit?
 

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Elechicken!
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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
To the best of my knowledge, the entire point of certain sections is to make sure your installation is "safe". However, this could and does mean future use... but the main sticking point is; your wire size could be way oversized and your receptacle way undersized... its all ok so long as the OCD is sized to the receptacle and not more.
Because it's a welder receptacle it falls under section 42. I can size the over current protection up to 200% of the welders size as long as the wiring is rated to the over current protection size (in this case, #6, under the 75° column if the receptacle is 75° termination temp, will be 65 amps max.)

I would read section 42-004 and 42-006

Although it would be nice to say "well, someone could unplug that and plug something else in, I don't think that's what code says. It'll be 50 amp OCPD on my circuit anyway.

**This must be a single circuit/single device. Because the tempation to tap off it for something else is to great for some other A-hole handyman, and throw a larger brkr in there.
I donut see how making it a dedicated circuit would make a different to a handyfunk...

I think code states it has to be a dedicated receptacle anyway(I gotta check), but there is absolutely nothing stopping an individual from sticking an extension ring on the box, running some conduit around the garage, and installing 10 welder receptacles off of the same circuit.

Sent from my new phone. Autocorrect may have changed stuff.
 

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I’m a 1st year Canadian student and we’ve dug through a fair bit of code the last 5 months. I’m pretty sure it’s ok if the receptacle and /or conductors are rated higher than the over current device but never the other way around. The welder will draw whatever it’s going to, so long as the receptacle and conductor is rated as high or higher than the ocd will allow than its ok.
 

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Elechicken!
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Discussion Starter · #9 · (Edited)
I’m a 1st year Canadian student and we’ve dug through a fair bit of code the last 5 months. I’m pretty sure it’s ok if the receptacle and /or conductors are rated higher than the over current device but never the other way around. The welder will draw whatever it’s going to, so long as the receptacle and conductor is rated as high or higher than the ocd will allow than its ok.
Welcome to the forum Phillipd. Please take a few minutes to fill out your profile.

Regarding what you said, as eddycurrent posted, 26-700 states all receptacles from diagram 1 and 2 should be installed with matching overcurrent protection and wiring to their appropriate amperage rating.

There are some exceptions to these rules, but as far as I can tell, they are not in the code book currently. One exception would be an EV charger that uses a 50 amp receptacle, but calls for 40 amp OCPD. These are uncommon for a first year to have to deal with. Hopefully the next code cycle will have it in the code book (there may be an amendment that I do not have).

Section 42 states that welder receptacles are permitted to be installed on higher overcurrent protection for welders (as per the rules in section 42) provided the wiring is rated to the OCPD. So a 50 amp receptacle can be installed on 100 amps, as long as you use #3 copper wiring. Welders are the only receptacles that are permitted to be installed on higher overcurrent protection (rule 42-004)

P.S., when I was a first year, I got my hands on a code book and read it cover to cover. I would reccomend doing that, but also the amendments too.

Sent from my new phone. Autocorrect may have changed stuff.
 

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Watt Pusher
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I’m a 1st year Canadian student and we’ve dug through a fair bit of code the last 5 months. I’m pretty sure it’s ok if the receptacle and /or conductors are rated higher than the over current device but never the other way around. The welder will draw whatever it’s going to, so long as the receptacle and conductor is rated as high or higher than the ocd will allow than its ok.
You are mistaken, the code says the overcurrent protection has to match the configuration of the receptacle. The only exception is that a range receptacle may be installed with 40A overcurrent protection.

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Elechicken!
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Discussion Starter · #11 · (Edited)
You are mistaken, the code says the overcurrent protection has to match the configuration of the receptacle. The only exception is that a range receptacle may be installed with 40A overcurrent protection.

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Not entirely true. It's the only exception in the code book currently. There is also this:

Incident: 9-21-2294 has been Responded to.

Topic: Residential Outlets & Circuits
Category: Outdoor Outlets & Circuits
Subject: EV Charger circuit ampacity with 6-50R

Question:

Charger has max draw of 30A but integral cord end is 6-50P. Can this be wired #8Cu on D40 breaker or must it be a 50A circuit? 26-700(2) seems relevant but also excessive.
Follow-up question: If 50A circuit is required then must 40A (80% of 50A) be used for load calc? If so it will sometimes occur that a service change must occur even though the existing EV charger doesn't require it. Again, seems excessive.
Thanks.





Answer:

--- (AskESA) 6/25/2018 10:34:28 AM
Yes, it is permitted to connect the 50 amp receptacle to a 40 amp circuit.

The rating of the EVSE can be the load for the purpose of maximum load calculation.

Reference is to the Ontario Electrical Safety Code 26th Edition/2015
Sent from my new phone. Autocorrect may have changed stuff.
 

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Ok that makes sense also lol. I was given the same example with the range receptacle and was told it’s ok to use a 40A ocd on a 50A range receptacle because the circuit is protected to 40A. A licensed electrician installed a 50A receptacle for our welder about 4 years ago fed from a sub panel he installed. He’s feeding the welder circuit with a 30A ocd and the sub panel is fed from a 40A ocd on another sub panel. He never did say it wasn’t code compliant.
 

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Elechicken!
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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Ok that makes sense also lol. I was given the same example with the range receptacle and was told it’s ok to use a 40A ocd on a 50A range receptacle because the circuit is protected to 40A. A licensed electrician installed a 50A receptacle for our welder about 4 years ago fed from a sub panel he installed. He’s feeding the welder circuit with a 30A ocd and the sub panel is fed from a 40A ocd on another sub panel. He never did say it wasn’t code compliant.
The range receptacle is the only device that is supposed to be installed on less overcurrent protection. Sure, it is safe because its rated for more current than the breaker will give it, but the code is specific to state in a kitchen only.

Now, are you an electrical apprentice @Phillipd?

If you are, PLEASE FILL OUT YOUR PROFILE!!!
 

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That definitely clears it up thank you. I am currently studying construction electrical in trade school and am hoping to find placement in May,I’m not finding exactly where to update my profile to indicate such?
 

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Elechicken!
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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
That definitely clears it up thank you. I am currently studying construction electrical in trade school and am hoping to find placement in May,I’m not finding exactly where to update my profile to indicate such?
When on a desktop computer, when logged in, on the left hand side there is a User CP option. Click on it, and then on the left hand side, there is Edit your details under "Your Profile".

Same can be done on mobile, but I only know how to do it by exiting enhanced mobile view.
 

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Do it for car chargers a lot. 40 amp breaker 8 guage wire 6-50 configuration. As long as its labeled it passes inspection.
 
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