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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Does anyone fully understand when you can use rehab rules or not? To be honest I do not even know the rehab specs. Example. I am currently doing a kitchen renovation and when we had the rough inspection the home owner asked the inspector if a outlet is needed in a specific area 24 inches from sink and inspector said normally yes but because this is rehab it is not needed? I just don't understand this whole rehab crap. When I bid a kitchen I will bid it as per nec requirements.
 

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Thumper
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This is a tip-off that you should be conservative in your scope of work.

A lot of inspectors will let you get away with a lot more if you don't go crazy like tearing down walls, new home runs, or new boxes.

If you keep your scope of work at just replacing devices some inspectors will play ball with you.

I had this come up once when an inspector didn't like a pre-existing recepticle that ended up behind the new sink the GC and plumber installed.

Because it was "existing" the electrical inspector didn't require I tear it out when he came for the final on the island wiring and lighting.
 

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Thumper
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Gamit,

If you want the straight dope, there are no rehab "rules" that are clear enough to competely enforceable without a judgement call.

The AHJ is being a nice and reasonable guy. Treat him well and try not to confuse the homeowner too much. Focus on the new capacity you are being paid to add.

Just get the work done fast and conservative, get inspected and out before you end up in back and forth / scope creep with the homeowner.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
bobelectric said:
A kitchen is the last place to be cheap on circuits and receptacles.
I was not trying to cut corners but the design of kitchen has window right above counters with no back splash so I told homeowner that you would have to use one of those pop up outlets in counter and they are hesitant to cut a hole in new granite top
 

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Thumper
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I was not trying to cut corners but the design of kitchen has window right above counters with no back splash so I told homeowner that you would have to use one of those pop up outlets in counter and they are hesitant to cut a hole in new granite top
Need picture. Can install outlets in base cabinet, plugmold along window trim, or upper cabinets depending on dimensions/heights. Face up outlets are not allowed, sounds like you know that.

You already have the countertops in before starting the electrical layout?
Is the sink under the window?
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
markore said:
Need picture. Can install outlets in base cabinet, plugmold along window trim, or upper cabinets depending on dimensions/heights. Face up outlets are not allowed, sounds like you know that. You already have the countertops in before starting the electrical layout? Is the sink under the window?
Counters not in yet and are options are installing in base cabinet or pop up. There are no uppers and there are stacked 2 by 4 s above counter and with window molding and such wire mold type are no good.
 

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I remember someone posting the link to the actual requirements.

I would give your inspecting agency a call.
 

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Gamit,

If you want the straight dope, there are no rehab "rules" that are enforceable.

The AHJ is being a nice and reasonable guy. Treat him well and try not to confuse the homeowner too much. Focus on the new capacity you are being paid to add.

Jst get the work done fast and conservative, get inspected and out before you end up in back and forth / scope creep with the homeowner.
Markore has given you excellent advice.:thumbsup: Treat your inspectors with respect and it comes right back.
 

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Go read 7.E.5, through 7.E.G.! pages 3 & 4, parts of 5 where NJ seperate it down into its component parts of repair, renovation and alternation.

Now back up and read how they introduce this. Then note afterward how they break down what your doing to a structure becasue or R,R,A.

Now the old rule of thumb in a lot of State(s) including mine is that some measurable percentage of construction is to happen is when stuff needs to be brought up to code, IE 60% construction the whole building needs to be brought up to Code. This is frankly gone in NJ's Case. Like 5.G.4.i,ii,iii,iv.

Welp thats the way I read it.

A pdf I spoke of Here

Google Results nj rehabilitation code

My comments are of the first listing and PDF link above.

Hope this helps.
 

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Estwing magic
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This is a tip-off that you should be conservative in your scope of work.

A lot of inspectors will let you get away with a lot more if you don't go crazy like tearing down walls, new home runs, or new boxes.

If you keep your scope of work at just replacing devices some inspectors will play ball with you.

I had this come up once when an inspector didn't like a pre-existing recepticle that ended up behind the new sink the GC and plumber installed.

Because it was "existing" the electrical inspector didn't require I tear it out when he came for the final on the island wiring and lighting.
I completely don't understand this definition of "pre-existing".
 

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Thumper
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Well I'll bow out since NJ isnt my area. The point I was making was on a pragmatic basis its easy to get on the hook for the whole place if you talk to much, do to much, or have unclear expectations from the customer on exactly what capacity and scope you are adding. If an inspector is there for whats printed on the permit let them inspect that and leave without opening questions on farther jurisdiction.

Some inspectors are actually pretty unclear on how much jurisdiction they do or don't have. Remember they are just trying to get through their workday and back home too.

On these remodel finals I won't let the customer be there because they talk too much.
 

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Thumper
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I completely don't understand this definition definition of "pre-existing".
It wasn't on the permit. He was inspecting the island wiring which was the scope of our work. The recepticle behind the sink was in the existing kitchen wall which had not been rewired but had a brand new sink.

No matter how many pages of local codes they enact the one guy who shows up is still going to make a judgement call. How do you define the percentage? Be it by wirenut device circuit or other metric, shockdoc will tell you those guidelines will be subverted on the ground.

Add new capacity, have good clean work to show with clear expectations, and you will avoid a lot of trouble.
 

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I believe they are currently using the 2008 NEC for the Rehab Sub-code. As long as your working within the existing footprint of the structure, this is what you would use. Outside of that, you would use 2011 code. I worked on a house that was completely gutted with an addition on the side. Only the circuits run to the new part were AFCI. The purpose of the Rehab code is to mitigate the expense when a structure is updated.
 

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I like to go down to the city's help desk and talk to the inspectors there sometimes since different ones enforce their policies differently.
Great advice Killingjoke50.

Find out who's assigned to your rough as soon as possible so you can catch them during office hours if you don't have time to stop in personally.
 
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