[Dennis Alwon]

I work off the NEC but we have the same rule. As long as there is a disconnect as near as possible to where the service cables enter the building there should be no reason that you can't move the panel. You are just making the old panel a sub panel and all those rules apply

 

[99cents]

Put in a meter main outside and the feed to the panel can be any length you want. The panel becomes a sub.

 

[kb1jb1]

Don't forget to separate the whites from the greens.

 

[joe-nwt]

Don't forget to separate the whites from the greens.

All our panels come with ground bars installed out of the box and have for an eternity. OK, maybe some commercial 3ph panels don't, but all residentials do. In 40+yrs I've never laid eyes on a panel with ground and neutrals installed on the same bar in Canada.

 

[kb1jb1]

Here in the US most main panels in the past had one common neutral buss bar where both white and grounding conductors were landed. When converting it to a sub panel we would have to separate the buss bar or add a grounding buss bar and swing over the equipment grounding conductors. Finally, over the past 5 years, they have been installing a grounding buss bar. Now to get the electricians to use it instead of the neutral buss bar to land the green or bare.

 

[99cents]

All our panels come with ground bars installed out of the box and have for an eternity. OK, maybe some commercial 3ph panels don't, but all residentials do. In 40+yrs I've never laid eyes on a panel with ground and neutrals installed on the same bar in Canada.

Schneider single phase panels have ground bars that are field installed. I’m not sure, I haven’t looked, but he may have to take the ground to the panel and then back to bond the meter.

 

[chavitoracing]

Put in a meter main outside and the feed to the panel can be any length you want. The panel becomes a sub. View attachment 169672

I like this idea since it will be cleaner. Do I run the ground from the grounding electrode straight to the panel as I would normally or do I have to go to this disconnect first and then to the panel (and remove the grounding jump between the neutral bar and the ground bar)?
Thank you

 

[Kevin]

I like this idea since it will be cleaner. Do I run the ground from the grounding electrode straight to the panel as I would normally or do I have to go to this disconnect first and then to the panel (and remove the grounding jump between the neutral bar and the ground bar)?
Thank you

The ground from rhe ground rod/plate/watermain will go to the first disconnecting means, then you'll run a bond from there to the new panel and remove the bonding jumper as you stated.

Done many of these services. You're basically treating the new panel as a sub-panel because you'll have a service entranced rated fused disconnect before it.

 

[kb1jb1]

The ground from rhe ground rod/plate/watermain will go to the first disconnecting means, then you'll run a bond from there to the new panel and remove the bonding jumper as you stated.

Done many of these services. You're basically treating the new panel as a sub-panel because you'll have a service entranced rated fused disconnect before it.

I had several " discussions " about the first part of your post. The water main, plate, or rod gets connected in the first disconnect which is outside . Here, we in the US who are on the 2020 NEC are now require an external disconnect on new and major renovation jobs. Some say it is only an emergency disconnect and not the service disconnect and we don't have to move the GEC or separate the whites and greens on the inside panel. I say if it has over current protection then it is the service disconnect and all bonding has to be moved.

 

[LGLS]

I had several " discussions " about the first part of your post. The water main, plate, or rod gets connected in the first disconnect which is outside . Here, we in the US who are on the 2020 NEC are now require an external disconnect on new and major renovation jobs. Some say it is only an emergency disconnect and not the service disconnect and we don't have to move the GEC or separate the whites and greens on the inside panel. I say if it has over current protection then it is the service disconnect and all bonding has to be moved.

How about using one of those "no overcurrent protection" fake dummy breakers which are really just switches out there in the meter main or the added separate putdoor disco? THEN is it not a 1st means of PROTECTION (for the incoming cabble) or would that begate the other code says that main breaker must me no more than 5' of cable or shorter if possible between the no-overcurrent protected SEU... althought eliminating the necessity of running SER... but then ya gotta pot that SEU or WIRE in GALV or Sch 80 betwixt the unfused dicso and panel anyways... ???

 

[kb1jb1]

How about using one of those "no overcurrent protection" fake dummy breakers which are really just switches out there in the meter main or the added separate putdoor disco? THEN is it not a 1st means of PROTECTION (for the incoming cabble) or would that begate the other code says that main breaker must me no more than 5' of cable or shorter if possible between the no-overcurrent protected SEU... althought eliminating the necessity of running SER... but then ya gotta pot that SEU or WIRE in GALV or Sch 80 betwixt the unfused dicso and panel anyways... ???

That is the discussion I had with several. If we use a non fused 3R switch or just a molded case switch outside then how is that handled? Where is the grounding and bonding done?

For inventory purposes it is much cheaper to just buy a meter with main breaker for the outside. To me, this is now the service disconnect and all grounding and bonding takes place now outside but some are saying this is only the emergency disconnect. So which is it? Emergency disconnect or the service disconnect or both?

 

[99cents]

I like this idea since it will be cleaner. Do I run the ground from the grounding electrode straight to the panel as I would normally or do I have to go to this disconnect first and then to the panel (and remove the grounding jump between the neutral bar and the ground bar)?
Thank you

You can ground either the panel or meter main first. Just make sure you’re able to disconnect the ground to neutral connection at the second location.

 

[LGLS]

That is the discussion I had with several. If we use a non fused 3R switch or just a molded case switch outside then how is that handled? Where is the grounding and bonding done?

For inventory purposes it is much cheaper to just buy a meter with main breaker for the outside. To me, this is now the service disconnect and all grounding and bonding takes place now outside but some are saying this is only the emergency disconnect. So which is it? Emergency disconnect or the service disconnect or both?

I say, "emergency disconnect" is first and foremost THE 1st DISCONNECT, just cause that verbish-noun "disconnect" is prefaced with an adverb doesn't change the meaning of the subject at all it just better describes it... IOW an a-hole electrician is STILL and electrician are they not?

 

[kb1jb1]

I say, "emergency disconnect" is first and foremost THE 1st DISCONNECT, just cause that verbish-noun "disconnect" is prefaced with an adverb doesn't change the meaning of the subject at all it just better describes it... IOW an a-hole electrician is STILL and electrician are they not?

But is it the service disconnect where all bonding and grounding takes place?

 

[LGLS]

But is it the service disconnect where all bonding and grounding takes place?

Yes as it's the 1st means of disconnect... HOWEVER; if that meter main is not serviceable or accessible to the customer and the bonding done in an accessible compartment and it's totally rendered inaccessible by the utility, THEN it's part of the UTILITY'S distribution system and not subject to NEC jurisdictional boundaries... and then the SEU can continue through with a 3-wire feeder and no separate neutral and then that 1st panel would require the same old same old but needs no main breaker at all... And face it LIers want that main down in the bsmt or garage because if they don't have an interlock they will eventually need one...