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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Ive done feed stores, banks and schools but never a restaraunt. Any info on what to be aware of or to know would be a great help as this is my first one. The place is completely cutted out for remodel and they want me to do the elctrical design. I already know I have to upgrade their survice but that's the easy part. This is in California. Thanks. Mike.
 

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besc said:
Ive done feed stores, banks and schools but never a restaraunt. Any info on what to be aware of or to know would be a great help as this is my first one. The place is completely cutted out for remodel and they want me to do the elctrical design. I already know I have to upgrade their survice but that's the easy part. This is in California. Thanks. Mike.
It's really driven by equipment and floor plan.
 

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I own stock in FotoMat!
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And the Ansul system can vary widely. Wet or dry suppressant? What does activation need to do?..... what must turn off, what must stay running, what must turn on if off? Does it alert the security system? Is the space part of a larger building and need to tie into their fire alarm? Does it need to shut down the gas? Manual activation point (s)?
 

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Bilge Rat
motors and controls.........
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Never use MC cable in the kitchen, always use pipe and always oversize. Most of the time, the final equipment layout will not be even close to the original drawing.

If the dishwasher has an electric booster heater, it'll be a huge load. I've seen them require more than 100 amps at 208 or 240.

Any surface pipe needs to be mounted away from the wall so the back side of it can be cleaned.

As noted, the Ansul system will be a bear. Even if it's installed per drawing, the fire marshall has the final say.

Don't be surprised if you have to move a few light fixtures around in the dining room. Especially the pendant hung ones that are centered on the tables.
 

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So, there is no formal plans, there is trouble right there! JMO.
OK, What the service on the pole, make note of it and make it a point
that the owner understands it. Or the owner will do the following:

The owner will buy any piece of like equipment that will not match your
electrical lay out or service size.
There will be no presented cut sheets for equipment, you have to seek and qualify all equipment arrangements,
and specifications.

You have to watch what needs to be under the Ansul hood. Example a
Chip smoker that is a pan with chips in water
that placed in the oven is not required to be under the hood in NC,
your requirements might be different.

If you figure 42 circuits you'll need 54 or 60. Every piece of equipment needs a circuit. In the kitchen you have to watch
convience outlets verses dedicated circuits on a countertop or a parapit wall.
Most kitchen (not all) have a backsplash built
in on the SS table top. What is that height? You need to be approximately inches above or go under
the counter top for 24" or maybe 30" or 36" AFF. What are the wash down requirements of the kitchen and
this wall or any wall?

You have to get with the plumber and have them tell your the size of the
water heater if electric!
If not the you only need a ignator circuit.

You need to have the HVAC guy tell you their electrical requirements!
Is the building sprinkled, you need power for that,
and you might need to do some signal wiring piping, Example, control panel to sprinkler main header,
you might also be required to do site work piping for FA for Control panel,
to street water main, who resposible for all that?

There should be make up air for kitchen hood and there might be just an
wall exhaust fan that needs to be wired and
needs to be included in make-up air calc's. While not on you make sure that HVAC has covered it in thier calc's.

You have to get your power up to through roof for various circuits and your electrical roof power, all need
to be at best done once (the peneration) all sized need to be correct for all the various equipment!
Don't miss a circuit or make an incorrect peneration size!

Signage, you might need two circuits for four sides of building, don't forget outside sign and all those requirements.

When they break up floor have your size and requirements ready, QA that you can run with plumbing to various points and
be ready to ask to increase the size of a run for you pipes. I'd put everything in the ground that you can.

You have to pass a State Health Inspection as well as an electrical inspection.

Since this is a public business the ADA requirements for placement of electrical devices and approach-ability and
spacial requirements well come into play.

The best thing the owner could do is go get this designed by an Architect
or Engineer with a Architect partner.
This is not a Design Build Application that you are ready for, IMO.

The above is only a few small statements of the headaches that you are going to run into.

Is the FA guy going to do all their own stuff or ar you going to do that too?

Good Luck!
 

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Professional Nit Picker
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Every commercial kitchen I wired I had a equipment layout and the electrical requirements from the equipment supplier. NEVER rough in a commercial kitchen off the electrical drawing.
NO design? Make the contractor / owner provide the information I mentioned that way when it is wrong you can go back on them.
 

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Electrical Contractor
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So, there is no formal plans, there is trouble right there! JMO.
The best thing the owner could do is go get this designed by an Architect
or Engineer with a Architect partner.
This is not a Design Build Application that you are ready for, IMO.


Good Luck!
Every commercial kitchen I wired I had a equipment layout and the electrical requirements from the equipment supplier. NEVER rough in a commercial kitchen off the electrical drawing.
NO design? Make the contractor / owner provide the information I mentioned that way when it is wrong you can go back on them.
Both of these comments are 100% correct:thumbup:
Restaurants are the biggest pia, even when there are proper drawings.
And beware of the owner who makes changes on the fly. He can cause you more problems than you can imagine.
 

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CADPOINT, good post man! I have done a couple commercial kitchens in the past, but they all seemed different and they all had prints. I did one remodel without prints, but that job had lots of problems and the customer kept buying different peices of equipment that he was getting at used prices - none of it matched with what was there. That job didn't finish on time because of this nonsense.
 

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Light Bender
plumber
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Not sure if this applies to u but up here in Canada we have to watch for equipment without a CSA logo on it. Owners love to buy used equipment from who knows where and it costs extra to have "special inspection" certify it.

Also the cord end on this old equipment may have the wrong plug installed as per the nameplate. 30 amp equipment with a 50 amp cord end on it from the last place it was wired etc.

Oh yeah, if this place was a restaurant and your doing a retro it's gonna b gross. Grease and bugs everywhere, specially in the panels and j boxes!

Man I hate restaurants:laughing:
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
This all started out with a request for a service change from 60 to 125 amp. I suggested a 200 amp service. Think I'll stick with just changing the service and walking away after that. Mike.
 

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Arsholeprentice
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200A? How big is the restaurant? Is it a little taqueria or something?

A few pieces of new kitchen equipment will have that overloaded in no time.
 

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Sideways Sparky
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Just did a service upgrade in a restaurant. It had a 100 amp service running the whole place including the suite they lived in.
30,000 btu A/C
1 1/2hp exhaust hood
ice machine
the biggest baddest coffee pot complete with hot water tap
6 fridges
4 chest freezers
2 glass door coolers
2 buffet hot tables
microwaves, toasters etc... all incandescent lighting.
They claim to have never experienced nuisance trips.
 

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Just did a service upgrade in a restaurant. It had a 100 amp service running the whole place including the suite they lived in.
30,000 btu A/C
1 1/2hp exhaust hood
ice machine
the biggest baddest coffee pot complete with hot water tap
6 fridges
4 chest freezers
2 glass door coolers
2 buffet hot tables
microwaves, toasters etc... all incandescent lighting.
They claim to have never experienced nuisance trips.
Was it a single or three phase service? Quite a mix of single & three phase in old commercial around here.

I'VE seen several small restaurants & delis in older strip malls & buildings, and alot of them seem to still have the original single phase 100 or 150 amp service. I wouldn't say its common, but I wouldn't say it was rare either. Seems like everything built or remodeled after 1980 wasn't smaller than 200 amp.
 
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