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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Your building apartments, the corporate electrical contractor only cares about the bottom line and "missed" some stuff in the bid or does not give a crap.

You come across a plenum and notice the romex and fplr-r installed in the plenum which you know is wrong to do.

You go to your superiors and inform them "thats a plenum, romex is not allowed, i also need plenum rated fplr, you have installed riser cable, this is not allowed"

"Just do it" is the response you get.

How are they getting away with it?

Can inspectors be bought/paid off?

Is there not any ethics in workmanship in this trade anymore?

Does anyone give a crap?

This jobs in mass and i dont see how they are managing to pull one over on the customer and ahj.

I dont care one way or the other, ill pull bell wire if they tell me too and collect my check on friday.

BUT it does not feel right knowing that its wrong.

End rant.
 

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When is the inspection?

It's pretty funny to think about, but when you do old/remodel work, you have no clue if you are in a plenum half the time (or more than half the time). It's just another chase.

Either way, for new work, it sounds like a ****ty contractor to work for. If it bothers you that much, start looking for another job. You ARE right on this one. But how right do you want to be?
 

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Depending in your personal ethics you have three choices:

1. Keep your mouth shut, do it like they say, and take the money.

2. Ask the inspector why it meets code? Be prepared to be sent home.

3. Do the work, get your pay, drop a dime to the AHJ, get paid to do it right.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I suppose what bothers me is the employer knows its dead wrong, yet does it anyway like they dont give a crap.

Furthermore they often train the apprentices in there shoddy work habits.

Apprentice quits, thinks he knows his stuff after 4 years of doing it wrong, goes to contractor b and lasts a week because of shoddy work. Its a vicious cycle, and some of the younger guys out in the field now produce some scary work.
 

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Donuts > Fried Eggs
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...Furthermore they often train the apprentices in there shoddy work habits....
That's a risk in any shop. I've seen it more than once, especially in small places that are like an echo-chamber where no new or updated information gets introduced. You'll have the same 10 guys telling each other the same misconceptions and half-truths over and over.

If it's sincerely dangerous, like leaving out GFCI protection on a pool or something along those lines, I'd fight it. I would not personally make my stand over non-plenum rated cable, but everybody has to do what allows them to sleep at night.
 

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Spaghetti Cleaner
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I stock only plenum on my truck, some people complain, I get my way.

I report improper cable, usually doesn't get replaced.
 

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Some here are asking if you want to die on that hill. I don't think it's so cut and dried.
You are screwing up the safety of that building for the future occupants. Romex puts out huge amounts of toxic smoke when it burns so, it should be inside of a rated wall or maybe even sleeved through an air handling space.
That fact that you know it's wrong and are either doing it or allowing it to be installed says a bit to me about how much you think of yourself as a professional.
This is something that is seriously wrong and may be getting past your inspector but, what if your boss is 90% complete and he has to bare the cost of replacing it! maybe having to hire another craft to do some finishing and painting work, after some fire inspector catches it.
It will wipe him out and ruin his reputation.
This isn't like a box fill issue or a missed strap here and there. This is a really bad situation.
You need to find a way to do something with out loosing your job if at all possible.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Some here are asking if you want to die on that hill. I don't think it's so cut and dried.
You are screwing up the safety of that building for the future occupants. Romex puts out huge amounts of toxic smoke when it burns so, it should be inside of a rated wall or maybe even sleeved through an air handling space.
That fact that you know it's wrong and are either doing it or allowing it to be installed says a bit to me about how much you think of yourself as a professional.
This is something that is seriously wrong and may be getting past your inspector but, what if your boss is 90% complete and he has to bare the cost of replacing it! maybe having to hire another craft to do some finishing and painting work, after some fire inspector catches it.
It will wipe him out and ruin his reputation.
This isn't like a box fill issue or a missed strap here and there. This is a really bad situation.
You need to find a way to do something with out loosing your job if at all possible.

There is nothing i can do but watch it happen..this is not the first nor the last corner to be cut on this job, jobs prior, or future.

I been with this shop 6 months, one of the larger contractors in new england. And i have seen much "hack" work with the ropers.

If i had to rope i would walk, im just an infrastructure and service entrance guy.

I have been asked to hack this or hack that, they know i wont, so now they dont ask.
 

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Bababoee
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If it really bothers you that much you can
A. Get a new job.
B. Get your own company going.
C. Tell the town officials and see what they do about it.
D. Tell the building owner or management company.
 

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captkirk said:
If it really bothers you that much you can A. Get a new job. B. Get your own company going. C. Tell the town officials and see what they do about it. D. Tell the building owner or management company.
As captk listed if you can't sleep at night because of it . Start looking for a job , get one with a start date, then rat him out.
In that order, if you don't do it in that order, good luck getting on with someone else!
I can't speak for every company out there , but I would,nt want a rat working for me.
We all try to sneak alittle past inspection from time to time. Although this is one if the things most of they guys on Here, wouldn't pull.
 

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Senior Moment
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If there is a fire and people die from toxic smoke I'm sure the lawyers and families will understand and just say "everyone makes mistakes, this isn't worth taking everyone involved to court". I'd bet the average lawyer would forgo a big payday just to be nice.
 

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There are so many other materials giving off toxic fumes in a fire, the small amount of fumes from the romex is insignificant. A little bit of romex in a plenum is not what is killing people in fires.
Good point!:thumbup: As long as the romex isn't holding NEC 700 or 701 classified loads I would worry about it burning up when all else is.
 

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Spaghetti Cleaner
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If you had the ability to install something safer, why wouldn't you?

The only reason we install GFCI's is because it's required, would you not install them if weren't yet available?
 

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There are so many other materials giving off toxic fumes in a fire, the small amount of fumes from the romex is insignificant. A little bit of romex in a plenum is not what is killing people in fires.
It's true in a fire office furniture and carpet give off toxic fumes as they are consumed by the flames, but these are not in the air supply of building. These items are legal when used as intended, i.e. sitting in an office.
Items that give off fumes in the plenum can kill people that are not near the fire.
Liability for deaths and injures cause be willful violations of code is were the big money gets paid out.
 

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It's not really up to the descression of the installer. The person placing that material in a non-conforming way will be the person responsible. Problem is that it cannot be hidden and will always be evidence against the person holding the contractor license.
 
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