[kbatku]

Exactly. We ( as a species) aren't going to do anything so we are going to ride this flaming ball to hell down to the last drop of oil. It's pretty simple really. The pressure put on the population by global warming will lead to wars, famine, and pestilence. Many many people are going to die - maybe all of us. The fact that you all scoff at this is proof positive we will never act on reducing carbon output in a meaningful way. The efforts now need to be aimed at mitigation and an effort to preserve a core human population through the coming catastrophe. But to you it's all lah te dah I'll be dead soon so who cares.

 

[MotoGP1199]

Exactly. We ( as a species) aren't going to do anything so we are going to ride this flaming ball to hell down to the last drop of oil. It's pretty simple really. The pressure put on the population by global warming will lead to wars, famine, and pestilence. Many many people are going to die - maybe all of us. The fact that you all scoff at this is proof positive we will never act on reducing carbon output in a meaningful way. The efforts now need to be aimed at mitigation and an effort to preserve a core human population through the coming catastrophe. But to you it's all lah te dah I'll be dead soon so who cares.

What is the solution,?
Do you just completely ignore the carbon footprint of producing ev batteries and the ability to charge them? And the carbon footprint of us Using china to produce all of this green energy with zero care or concern for the environment. They are building more coal power plants so they can produce our green energy batteries and solar panels instead of us using clean natural gas.

What about raping the environment for the materials needed for these batteries and solar panels.We use crazy toxic chemicals to get the metals out of the Earth.

 

[emtnut]

Exactly. We ( as a species) aren't going to do anything so we are going to ride this flaming ball to hell down to the last drop of oil. It's pretty simple really. The pressure put on the population by global warming will lead to wars, famine, and pestilence. Many many people are going to die - maybe all of us. The fact that you all scoff at this is proof positive we will never act on reducing carbon output in a meaningful way. The efforts now need to be aimed at mitigation and an effort to preserve a core human population through the coming catastrophe. But to you it's all lah te dah I'll be dead soon so who cares.

There is a VERY good chance that some 'child' in China has Cancer from manufacturing the device you are using to access this forum.

What are YOU doing about that ?

 

[kb1jb1]

There is a VERY good chance that some 'child' in China has Cancer from manufacturing the device you are using to access this forum.

What are YOU doing about that ?

Or some child in The Congo working the cobalt mines or China strip mining for raw materials. Rather than worry about "Carbon footprints" I am more worried about the toxic pollution. Weather the "red tide " on the west coast of Florida or the rail disaster in Ohio. The disruption of the fisheries because of ocean based wind farms and power cables. Some places they clean cut old growth forest to make way for a solar farm. There is no end to the hypocrisy and folly of man. Planet of the Humans on Amazon Prime movies.

 

[nrp3]

There is no question that there are consequences and cost both environmentally and monetarily for paradigm shifts in how we create energy and consume it. What has the least environmental impact, centralized energy production or lots of individual production? This is a moving target over time.

I love disaster movies as much anyone else but I don’t think it’ll play out that way unless we get hit by an Armageddon style meteor hit as in the movie. Philosophically speaking, too much money to lose and or we as a species are not far different than Covid as far as change.

 

[brian john]

We've got to face the fact that we aren't ever going to do anything substantial about carbon emissions and that because of this 95 - 98% of humans and civilization as we know it will be gone in a hundred years. We are facing a global collapse followed by starvation, war and pestilence that will knock us back as a species back into the stone age, where we will start the whole process over again. If we're lucky. If we are unlucky then I guess that as a species we got what was coming to us for our arrogance and abuse of our home. We had a good run but now I guess it's up to our cockroach overlords to build on what we've accomplished.

Hopefully, you are willing to go first.

While I am 100% for improving air quality, there has to be some logic and one thing that has been proven time and again the fruits and nuts of San Francisco act of feelings not logic.

All we are doing is peeing in the wind based on the Chi-Coms

China is building 2 coal fired plants per month. They are raping the world from Africa to South America. They just signed agreements with Honduras. Do they care about carbon or pollution? No. The US is collapsing with the rapid green stuff while China and India run wild. Let the market encourage the EV movement. Why is the government using taxpayer money to subsidize up to 90% of a commercial installation. No wonder 7-11 is installing fast chargers at many of their locations. Do the math.

 

[lighterup]

new source of energy...well old new...Nuclear power plants. JAne Fonda scared the H. E. double hockey sticks out of America with that dumb movie in the seventies , so we start shutting down nuke plants. Bring em back.

 

[brian john]

new source of energy...well old new...Nuclear power plants. JAne Fonda scared the H. E. double hockey sticks out of America with that dumb movie in the seventies , so we start shutting down nuke plants. Bring em back.

Several thoughts on this.

I lieu of the massive plants we have been building how about something in line with what the Navy builds for their (our) Aircraft carriers? Smalle easier to build less large scale risk(?).

Come up with an "Ideal Design" and build all plants to the "ideal Design", find there is an improvement needed, improve all plants, Technicians could work at any plant and have an understanding of the operation.

 

[nrp3]

Nukes are looking kinda good actually to me. Not without issues, but what else?

 

[lighterup]

Several thoughts on this.

I lieu of the massive plants we have been building how about something in line with what the Navy builds for their (our) Aircraft carriers? Smalle easier to build less large scale risk(?).

Come up with an "Ideal Design" and build all plants to the "ideal Design", find there is an improvement needed, improve all plants, Technicians could work at any plant and have an understanding of the operation.

This sounds to be a very good idea

 

[lighterup]

I don't mean to derail the thread , but I swear I read somewhere that some scientists speculate that Oil fields may actually be what the earths crust slides on. As we continue to take this oil , we will have more & more earthquakes due to the earths crust not sliding quite as easily. Any one else ever heard of this?

 

[nrp3]

We need another Rickover personality to shepard this. The nuclear thing that is.

 

[RAD COM]

Then they get contracts with the POCO to expand the Gas turbine plants to supply the electrical

Only catch is the power plants will be built outside of California. So it's a jobs program for Nevada and Arizona. California electricians will get the job to install a branch circuit. Nevada will get the billion dollar power plant jobs.

 

[brian john]

Seems one SCREWED UP PLACE

The shortlist of some of the reasons this city is screwed up and will end before KatButts predictions.

ABC News

SAN FRANCISCO -- San Francisco supervisors have backed the idea of paying reparations to Black people, but whether members will agree to lump-sum payments of $5 million to every eligible person or to any of the more than 100 other recommendations made by an advisory committee won't be known until later this year.

San Fran Chronicle

On the night of February 23, 2022, the city counted 7,800 homeless people in San Francisco. 4,400 of those people were unsheltered, which is about 0.54% of the population.

It’s an unusually high number of unsheltered homeless people for a large American city. There is no official comparable data for 2022, but numbers collected across the U.S. in 2019 shows that, among the nation's largest cities for which there is data, only L.A. had a higher rate of unsheltered homeless people at 0.67%.

Hoover Institution

Why San Francisco Is Nearly The Most Crime-Ridden City In The US
San Franciscans face about a 1-in-16 chance each year of being a victim of property or violent crime, which makes the city more dangerous than 98 percent of US cities, both small and large. To put this in perspective, Compton, California, the infamous home of drug gang turf wars, and which today remains more dangerous than 90 percent of all US cities, is almost twice as safe as San Francisco.

KRON4 San Fran News

“These changes mean fully vaccinated and unvaccinated people can forgo mask-wearing while
engaging in outdoor activities such as walking, running, hiking or biking alone or with members of
the same household. And, you will no longer need to pull up your mask when simply passing others
by on a sidewalk or trail as the transient passing of people is not a risk of transmission,” said Philip.

People who have not been fully vaccinated will still need to wear a face mask if physical distancing is impossible – like walking on a crowded path passing many people or stopping to have a conversation with someone.

Once San Francisco enters the yellow tier, which is the least restrictive in California’s reopening plan, Philip says fully vaccinated people can also dine outdoors at a restaurant with friends
from multiple households without masks.

 

[RAD COM]

While I am not contending this won't happen.......I am not expecting it in our lifetime.

As per the San Fran news article, the suggested residential loads for pending removal:
28kW - The removal of a 100,000btu gas furnace would require in/about 28kW of electric heat.
5kW - The removal of a 25,000btu atmospherically vented water heater would be somewhere around 5kW.

The aforementioned gas equipment is pulled. Interior area heating AND the domestic water heater is now electrically operated. That's a 33kW increase. Notwithstanding this, too, I am understanding that we're all supposed to driving electric cars in 10 years too!! So, that's another approx 10kW.

So, now we have 43kW additional load required in a house that was only prewired for on/about 24kW (for 100amp) or 48kW (for 200amp) services.

This added demand load cascades from the top-down: (RED=Utility, BLUE=Private Contractor)
- Generation (hydro, nat gas, nuclear, etc...) then,

• Transmission lines, then,
• Distributions lines, then,

- Residential Services, then
- Residential Branch Circuitry.

There is NO WAY all this can be upgraded in short order:

The politicians can spin their wheels in this "green" tree-hugging boondoggle until they actually are advised by the energy industry what the implications really are!!!

I wish the politicians were thinking top down but it's backwards. They're pushing densification by overriding our local zoning restrictions without upgrading any utilities such as sewage, fire hydrants, traffic, or the grid or water. After they cram all this new housing apon us and require existing homes to "decarbonize". This will cause infrastructure breakdowns. Then the "crisis" will be used to gouge us for more rate increases, where only a small portion will actually be used to build out the grid or any other infrastructure for that matter. The rest will be for kick backs, pet projects, and DEI programs. It will be just like our bullet train that was supposed to go from LA to San Francisco. Now it's a commuter train from Merced to Modesto at 10X the original cost estimate. For all the money they've spent on this train that no one will ride they could have built two solar powered desalinization plants to help with the drought years. The Coastal Commission rejected the proposals as unnecessary. Maybe the residents in Malibu or some other posh beachfront place didn't want to have it in their neighborhood.
Rural portions of California where the middle class retirees live are having the power shut off every time the wind blows because Edison's lines haven't been upgraded in 50 years. After the recent Paradise fire and other forest fires caused by arcing distribution lines they don't want to be sued. Imagine that your utility provider can't deliver power because they don't want to be sued. I mean what kind of BS is that? When I grew up in the 70's in SoCal we never had power outages. We did have the San Onofre nuclear power plant though, which they shut down.
All this banning of gas appliances is being offset by homeowners having to install a 22Kw generator to keep their walk in refrigerators and wine cooler going. California was the biggest market for Generac backup generators last year. For some reason there is a critical thinking disconnect and people can see that their neighbors backup generator offsets all the stoves in their apartment building.
So yes they are implementing this now at the home owners and rate payers' major inconvenience and expense. I wish I could say they know it WILL NOT WORK as you do, but I don't think they really care. I talk to my friends and neighbors and they have the same "do something disease". It doesn't matter that the solution is worse than the problem, at least they're doing something. My neighbors just keep voting for the next green bond boondoggle, narrow minded restriction (SEE 15 MINUTE CITY), tax increase and rate hike.

 

[CAUSA]

Remember the fuel cell?

Burns A fuel and produces electricity. Emissions H2O and heat. N2 passed right through it no change. In steady state operation.

Now we do not hear boo about them.

was involved in a project in northern Canada, where a plant was built for a nameless company. Fuel cell. Unit running. In Alaska there is a company that rents them. Some specific set up required. But works good.

How come this is not branched on? That is the question.

https://cen.acs.org/energy/FuelCell-Energys-molten-carbonate-fuel/99/i11

Fuel Cells

A fuel cell uses the chemical energy of hydrogen or another fuel to cleanly and efficiently produce electricity with water and heat as the only pro...

www.energy.gov

some old links.

 

[kb1jb1]

new source of energy...well old new...Nuclear power plants. JAne Fonda scared the H. E. double hockey sticks out of America with that dumb movie in the seventies , so we start shutting down nuke plants. Bring em back.

Are you talking about "The China Syndrome"? Then six months after the movie came out the Three Mile Island nuke plant in Pennsylvania almost melted down.

 

[brian john]

Remember the fuel cell?

I have asked this question to myself and others many times.

 

[Bourbon County]

Are you talking about "The China Syndrome"? Then six months after the movie came out the Three Mile Island nuke plant in Pennsylvania almost melted down.

Don't forget about Chernobyl and most recently Fukishima in Japan. The Fukishima plant was actually caused by an act of nature; an earthquake and resulting tsunami.

 

[Frank DuVal]

Technically it is electric powered and consumes gas to heat air.

No, natural gas powered and consumes electricity to move the air.

Just how much energy you getting out of that 12/2 Romex?