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Yes, but why should I have to add/move bars in a brand new panel. why can't they get it right? 2 screw terminals for every breaker space should be code!
 

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corn-fused
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but why supply so many terminals when each terminal will hold ' up to 3 #10 wires' . from the specs of a panel i was looking at the other day. dont remember which one. if the mfg. suggests that then why does everyone think its a sin?:001_huh:
 

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but why supply so many terminals when each terminal will hold ' up to 3 #10 wires' . from the specs of a panel i was looking at the other day. dont remember which one. if the mfg. suggests that then why does everyone think its a sin?:001_huh:
Because the code says it's a sin. double tapping neutrals is a no-no. also look at this panel, it's a 30/30, which means it has a potential of 60 120volt circuits. there aren't nearly enough screws!
http://w3.usa.siemens.com/powerdistribution/us/en/product-portfolio/loadcenters/es-series/Pages/es-series.aspx
edit: thats a 40 circuit, but the 30/30 is the same
 

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Discussion Starter #29 (Edited)
200 amp 40 circuit used to come with neutral/grd bars that went the full length of the bus, no matter if it was al bus or copper and supply house or HD, now they only go halfway down. 100a/24 circuit MB panels now only have a bar on one side, if your using it as a subpanel you need to purchase and additional bar kit. Total BS to me as this used to be my preffered brand for installs. Not sure of 30/30's as i never install them.

It looks like they've got different styles now based on what and where you buy them. Total BS considering this got me by surprise. :censored:






Where in CT are you buying Siemens panels at HD? :001_huh:

NY and Mass HDs have them. But I just looked at their site, apparently half of them have the bar on one side or shortened. No way can I get AFCIs to work in these panels without it looking like arse:


http://www.homedepot.com/b/Electrical-Power-Distribution-Load-Centers/Siemens/N-5yc1vZbm2wZ1z0x9jn


And for that price lowes still has the full version in stock:

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Siemens-ES-Series-100-Amp-20-Space-20-Circuit-Main-Breaker-Load-Center-Value-Pack-S2020B1100P/203027367?N=5yc1vZbm2wZ1z0x9jn
 

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Wider Loadcenters

Siemens ES series loadcenters with the shortened neutral bars are a PIA.

The TL series is a better product.

I was working in a Square D Homeline panel and the Neutral bus was hidden behind the extra long frame AFCI breakers...so you have to pull a breaker to land additional wires.

I would like for a manufacturer to redesign the residential loadcenters to be wider. Widen them to 20 inches to give us more room for wiring. I very rarely mount a panel in a 14 1/2 inch stud bay.
 

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I hate the new arrangement Siemens has done on the 30/40 &40/40 load centers.
The older style that had the neutral/ ground buss all the way down were much better.
 

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Discussion Starter #32
I hate the new arrangement Siemens has done on the 30/40 &40/40 load centers.
The older style that had the neutral/ ground buss all the way down were much better.
Are all of them this way or just the ones at HD? I think I will stop using Siemens no matter the price if that is.
 

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corn-fused
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are seimens that chaep out east? around here theyve almost doubled in the last few years.
 
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