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Discussion Starter #42
are seimens that chaep out east? around here theyve almost doubled in the last few years.
They come cheap around here, especially the new contractor packs... but now I know why.




Or you can just stop buying that garbage and use Square D instead. :whistling2:

Best advice of the year on ET :thumbup:



PL is here to stay, correct?
 

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Because the code says it's a sin. double tapping neutrals is a no-no. also look at this panel, it's a 30/30, which means it has a potential of 60 120volt circuits. there aren't nearly enough screws!
http://w3.usa.siemens.com/powerdistribution/us/en/product-portfolio/loadcenters/es-series/Pages/es-series.aspx
edit: thats a 40 circuit, but the 30/30 is the same
I may be wrong but I don't think so.

My understanding is that "30/30" indicates that the panel is listed as 30 spaces/30 circuits with no tandems or twins allowed, that panel is only listed for 30 circuits total and any tandems installed would be a violation. For it to be listed for more it would read "30/40", "30/60" or whatever combination of full and tandems. Remember that all panels today must use CTL type tandem breakers that will only fit in certain spaces as tested and approved by the manufacturer.

FRANK
 

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Discussion Starter #47
I may be wrong but I don't think so.

My understanding is that "30/30" indicates that the panel is listed as 30 spaces/30 circuits with no tandems or twins allowed, that panel is only listed for 30 circuits total and any tandems installed would be a violation. For it to be listed for more it would read "30/40", "30/60" or whatever combination of full and tandems. Remember that all panels today must use CTL type tandem breakers that will only fit in certain spaces as tested and approved by the manufacturer.

FRANK

Your right, 30/30 means 30 full size breakers, while 30/60 means 30 full size breakers or 30 tandems.


The 2011 NEC (or 2008, don't remember which one atm) got rid of the 42 space rule.


Im probably going to get tar and feathered for saying this but I no longer follow the 42 space rule even in older panels. I will use a none CTL tandem in any panel as long as it is the same make. Yes I have existing 20/20 panels with 32 circuits:whistling2:

I have never seen a panel burn up from being listed for 40 circuits but ending up with 60.

The same panels sold here are sold in Canada which has allowed over 42 circuits for decades. The only reason the whole listing with rejection features is because the NEC imposed one of the dumbest rules of all time limiting panel boards and load centers to 42 spaces. Only to have people end up sawing down buss bars... Kind of shows you the power of code.
 

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I love ET! I learned a lot just now reading this thread and can't wait to get in to see what's on the warehouse shelves. I'm really not sure what model Siemans we're installing. Shame on me.

You guys rock!
 

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Discussion Starter #50
I love ET! I learned a lot just now reading this thread and can't wait to get in to see what's on the warehouse shelves. I'm really not sure what model Siemans we're installing. Shame on me.

You guys rock!
You learn more here than you do during an apprenticeship :laughing::eek:
 
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