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I have a split bus panel that has no main Breaker. there is a section separated with a 60 amp breaker.after the 60 amp breaker are the breakers I would like to power with a generator. There are no free slots. Any Idea how I can add a 30 amp connection. There are no open slots to add an interlock.
Thanks for any ideas
 

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I have a split bus panel that has no main Breaker. there is a section separated with a 60 amp breaker.after the 60 amp breaker are the breakers I would like to power with a generator. There are no free slots. Any Idea how I can add a 30 amp connection. There are no open slots to add an interlock.
Thanks for any ideas
You need to give more information, panel brand, model would help.
 

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I have a split bus panel that has no main Breaker. there is a section separated with a 60 amp breaker.after the 60 amp breaker are the breakers I would like to power with a generator. There are no free slots. Any Idea how I can add a 30 amp connection. There are no open slots to add an interlock.
Thanks for any ideas
No main = no interlock. period!!! you will have to install a transfer switch. auto or manual depends on how much the ho will spend
 

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The panel is obsolete and not up to today’s code. That’s just one reason why there is no interlock kit for it. Have an electrician change the panel and add an interlock.
 

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I have a split bus panel that has no main Breaker. there is a section separated with a 60 amp breaker.after the 60 amp breaker are the breakers I would like to power with a generator. There are no free slots. Any Idea how I can add a 30 amp connection. There are no open slots to add an interlock.
Thanks for any ideas
Good opportunity to scrape it off the wall and start over
 

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Bilge Rat
motors and controls.........
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With that type of panel, you cannot have any of the top 6 breakers on the gen. There's no way to prevent back feeding to the PUCO.

If you could make 2 spaces in the bottom half, you could use an interlock kit with the gen breaker and the 60 amp subfeed main.
 

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With that type of panel, you cannot have any of the top 6 breakers on the gen. There's no way to prevent back feeding to the PUCO.

If you could make 2 spaces in the bottom half, you could use an interlock kit with the gen breaker and the 60 amp subfeed main.
Yes you could. How much did they spend for a generator ?

That was the end of the money, they are broke and cant afford a badly needed panel upgrade ?

Also realize that if they can afford a generator then the lady of the house will want some circuits added one day

Keep in mind the code requires leaving room for expansion when the job is done

Just figure it all in and tell them this much for the job. If they dont like it then you dont want to get involved with cheap skates anyway
 

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This situation is going to get sticky unless you upgrade the ancient distribution equipment.

I walk way from every generator job unless the generator is 1800 rpm. Having done construction jobs, (over a year) on generator power I learned what equipment will give a long life and few problems. It is not that hard to find an older motor home Onan for under a grand.
One guy had a 12kw with a idle down feature to run longer. He blew up his big screen when is Sub Zero kicked in and the gen was in idle down feature. Did not want to listen to me about voltage surges, to expensive.

I had a job with 10 portable generac's (6000watt). Except for the first week one of them was in the shop all of the time. We changed the oil weekly. They ran about 8 hours a day 5 days a week. When the job was over the boss suggested we sell them I said good idea. Use your phone number. He asked me what I would do, we own a back hoe was my response.
Just my observation of the ones I had.
 

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Can you site the code reference for this statement?
90.8 Wiring Planning.
(A) Future Expansion and Convenience.

Plans and specifications that provide ample space in raceways, spare raceways, and additional spaces allow for future increases in electric power and communications circuits. Distribution centers located in readily accessible locations provide convenience and safety of operation.
 

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90.8 Wiring Planning.
(A) Future Expansion and Convenience.

Plans and specifications that provide ample space in raceways, spare raceways, and additional spaces allow for future increases in electric power and communications circuits. Distribution centers located in readily accessible locations provide convenience and safety of operation.
I read that to require me to have both plans and specs for future. So if I have neither what should I do?
 

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No main = no interlock. period!!! you will have to install a transfer switch. auto or manual depends on how much the ho will spend
Plus... tell the HO that he also needs to upgrade the split bus. The split bus will probably get greatly frowned upon if and when he trys to sell his house.

Plus, you need to complete your ET profile.
 

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I'd need to see chapter and verse on this assertion. In 45+ years in the craft I have never heard of such a code requirement.

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Tom Horne
refer to previous posts #13 and #15 above. which doesnt mean i am right, but it is what i was taught years ago. I also hate to go to a job where 3 or more very small panels have been daisy chained over the years, just to catch one more circuit
 

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I realize that I may get a lot of flack for this but under similar circumstances I would do it again.

In the 5th day of a 10 day ice storm induced power outage I met a fella in the Home DeSpot who was looking for any way to get his heat and refrigerator running. He was obviously as poor as the proverbial church mouse. We had been working for 3 days, at that point, to provide generators to electrically dependent home care patients in order to keep them at home and out of our very crowded hospitals. Ice + slip = ow. Ice + vehicles = screech bang. We were out of Generlink meter base adapter switches after having used the first 100 that the distributor had in stock to send us. Our local utility management was screaming like wounded animals in objection to our using Generlinks at all but at that point the issue was moot because we wouldn't have more for several days. They were told to stop their yapping by the Governor's staff quoting the State Disaster Act to them. So the guy has small children and repair estimates were at around 7 more days at that point.

Because his split bus panel now had a Fused Switch ahead of it, added when he had built his own attached garage, his neighbor was trying to get him the parts to back feed the dryer outlet to connect a generator. Since I prefer to like the guy I see in the mirror each morning I intervened. I interrupted the neighbor and told him that what he was about to do was unlawful and if there was any kind of leakage current back to the utility lines he could be charged with Homicide by Wanton Gross Negligence. The neighbor tried to say I didn't know what I was talking about and was really P/O. I told him that he could look it up at the public library and that he'd find it grouped in the murder statute that made death by drunk driving a second degree murder. That shut him up.

You see the utility here had a lot of special electrical connections over the years, such as lower cost power for water heaters and electric heating. Those had all been discontinued but the only thing that you could be sure of is that when the linemen took the special metering or other controls out they didn't bypass the meter when restoring the connection to the load that had once been separately controlled. As a consequence they left a lot of sneak current pathways which bypassed the existing panels entirely. I got the resident and the neighbor to to buy enough 10/3 w Gnd NM to reach back to the split bus panel from the outside wall of the garage. I mounted the inlet there and they ran the cable to the panel. The neighbor sprang for a 100 Ampere main lug only panel which raised him a notch in my eyes. What market that panel was designed for I don't know but it suited the purpose. I sprang for the 2 breaker tie downs and the interlock kit. Yes it was one of those cheesy rocker types that you could bend out of the way with your fingers but it was what was available. Two 60 ampere breakers were the other parts needed and I had used 60s on the van. I ran new conductors from the terminals of the breaker that controlled the lower section of the panel to one of the breakers in the new panel. I connected the 10/3 red and black to the second breaker in the main lug panel. I connected the main lugs of the new MLO panel to the supply lugs in the lower section of the existing panel. The interlock kit prevented the 2 sources from being interconnected so I was comfortable doing it that way.

I had told them it would work without any danger; I had meggered the lower busbars to ground and to the feeder conductors from the fused switch; but it was temporary and that I would come back and fix the rest when the power returned. Since I was still concerned about the know it all neighbor I did a double block and break energy control technique. I opened the fuse switch and removed the fuses. I then locked the switch closed with one of my lock out padlocks. I removed the meter from the base installed a meter blank and put the meter in my van. I told him to call when his neighbors lights came on and luckily that didn't happen in the middle of the night.

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Tom Horne
 
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