Electrician Talk banner
1 - 20 of 22 Posts

·
Jesus Scott
Joined
·
9,382 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Finishing up a kitchen remodel today and was replacing existing QO breakers with QO AFCI breakers. Safe to say I will NEVER use a Sq D panel for a new install unless absolutely necessary. The AFCI breakers are so ungodly large which in new work is bad enough but trying to add a bunch to an existing panel is an epic nightmare. F you Sq D, and Schneider too.

Side but related note... Spot the difference on these two boxes picked up at the supply house today. :censored:


 

·
Senior Moment
Joined
·
8,071 Posts
AFI or AFIC Suffix
Schneider Electric (Square D) type QO, QOB and HOM circuit breakers with suffix AFI or AFIC primarily detect parallel arcing (branch/feeder).
The push-to-test button is green or blue.
These will trip under these conditions:
(1) The breaker detects a downstream overload or short circuit (per trip curve)
(2) The breaker detects a downstream arc to ground in the range of 30-50ma or greater, regardless of the load.
(3) The breaker detects a downstream arc that meets certain preset conditions, plus at the same time the breaker is carrying 50A or more of load current, even if very briefly. This 50A maximum value used in QO and HOM AFI breakers is lower than UL1699 value of 75A for arc-fault circuit breakers.
CONCLUSION: Square D/Schneider Electric AFI Arc-Fault Circuit Breakers are designed to provide protection against overloads, short circuits, and parallel arcs (H-N), and will trip on arcs to ground in the range of 30-50mA or higher.

CAFI or CAFI Suffix
Schneider Electric (Square D) type QO, QOB and HOM circuit breakers with suffix CAFI or CAFIC detect parallel arcing plus series arcing (branch/feeder/outlet).
The push-to-test button is white.
These will trip under these conditions:
(1) The breaker detects a downstream overload or short circuit (per trip curve)
(2) The breaker detects a downstream arc to ground in the range of 30-50ma or greater, regardless of the load.
(3) The breaker detects a downstream arc that meets certain preset conditions, plus at the same time the breaker is carrying 5A or more of load current, even if very briefly. The 5A value is per UL1699 for combination-type arc-fault circuit breakers.
CONCLUSION: Square D/Schneider Electric CAFI Combination Arc-Fault Circuit Breakers are designed to provide protection against overloads, short circuits, parallel arcs (H-N), and series arcs (H-H same phase), and will trip on arcs to ground in the range of 30-50 mA or higher.
 

·
Jesus Scott
Joined
·
9,382 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
One is a combo and one is not?

Pete
Bingo. Asked for 4-15 and 4-20 The one non combo was one of them. :censored:

At my usual supplier I get everything myself. I had to go to my backup for Sq D stuff. Should have just gone to Big Orange. Plus they nailed me hard in the rump at 49 bucks a pop. At the same time handing me a four page quote on devices trying to get me to buy more from them. :no:
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
16,967 Posts
At my usual supplier I get everything myself. I had to go to my backup for Sq D stuff. Should have just gone to Big Orange. Plus they nailed me hard in the rump at 49 bucks a pop.
Yup. What were you thinking? :blink:


At the same time handing me a four page quote on devices trying to get me to buy more from them. :no:
I'm sure you're all over it. :no:
 

·
Senior Member
Joined
·
13,020 Posts
Weird, I just had to stuff a SqD AFCI in a P.O.S. clusterf*ck panel last week. It was similarly a bitch.

If they didn't have that stupid clip-on grabber thing they wouldn't be so bad, but half the time you have to beat on it to get it to snap in, and even then you're like, "Did I just mash it flat or did it go on right?" God forbid you have to try to yank one of them back out.
 

·
Electrical Contractor
Joined
·
9,325 Posts
Arc Faults of any brand stink. I use almost exclusively QO and haven't had that much of a problem. Any new resi job is going to get a QO panel with the PO Neutral option. Are you using your panel as a wireway or why do you have so many conductors that you can't even install arc faults??
 

·
Wyome
Joined
·
757 Posts
Finishing up a kitchen remodel today and was replacing existing QO breakers with QO AFCI breakers. Safe to say I will NEVER use a Sq D panel for a new install unless absolutely necessary. The AFCI breakers are so ungodly large which in new work is bad enough but trying to add a bunch to an existing panel is an epic nightmare. F you Sq D, and Schneider too.

Side but related note... Spot the difference on these two boxes picked up at the supply house today. :censored:


I agree. The breakers are way to big. I called the rep about this several years ago. They have no plans to change.
 
1 - 20 of 22 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top