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Discussion Starter #1
I accidently hit the ad which you yourself are probably seeing on the side bar...

It's the Square-D with the quick connect feature (no 1/2" or 3/4" romex knock-outs or connectors necessary). This seems like a huge time saver.
...Has anyone used them?
(BTW, the video is awful, 3 minutes and they show a dude struggling to take out a knock-out while talking about the virtues of their panel...)

I generally use the the Siemans "PL" boxes (copper bus bar, lots of room, I know them well), and I don't have strong feelings against Square D -except that the breakers are proprietary. That **** always pisses me off, so I don't use them and consequently don't know if they are "good" or not (I mean, everything is UL listed but...).

Product:
http://www.schneider-electric.us/en...o=newreply&p=4105146&xts=335357&xtdt=25000630

Whaddya think sparkies?
 

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I noticed that ad also.
Figured some may like that.
Not me, I'm old school.
But I never did NM roping.
There was many times I wished they made a load center without any knockouts.
Always hated having a 2.5 eccentric on a 200a panel.
Or the front row of 1/2 KO's are sometimes too close to the edge for 5/8 drywall and EMT.
Guys would end up making all sorts of offsets in the conduits to match up with the load centers KO pattern.

If an inspector wanted to hammer a person on this they could ask for nail plates.

It's just a matter of time before the resi panels goes the direction of the Eurotrash.

 

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Discussion Starter #3
Or the front row of 1/2 KO's are sometimes too close to the edge for 5/8 drywall and EMT.


It's just a matter of time before the resi panels goes the direction of the Eurotrash.


Yeah; I've definitely had that problem -especially sucks when the panel is already existing. I remember the first time I thought I was so *clever* putting the connector on the wire and fishing it "right into the panel!" I thought I was so brilliant ...and then I couldn't understand why I just couldn't get it to go in...:blink:
My inspector has been cool with me putting in a romex connector upside-down though. Or same with a tomic connector (I think some people call them "butterfly" connectors).

...And Holy Sh!t!!! That panel pic is scarey!
I can easily imagine this scenario:
"No problem honey, I'll just put a nail in the wall to hang this picture" (on the other side of the wall...)
 

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Well ; having worked with both types of panels ; they aren't "eurotrash "....my opinion...for overseas , mostly ; they have as restrictive standards for the electrical equipment as in N America .
The "sparkies" I knew asked....120vac...twice as much copper and low grade insulation ....what's that about ! And marettes ....that made them really laugh !
All the UK panels are ground faulted at 100mA on the main breaker ....and all circuits are meggered before you energize. And you leave a report on site to prove it was done ....with your contractors' number .So no "cowboys"; as they say ; doing wiring jobs !
So if you screw -up....the electrical inspection group know who to "spank " !
And...mostly the homes are brick walls ; not 2 X 4 / 2 X 6 ....so no nails thro' the wall !
 

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Looks like the way many looped the telephones a long time ago.
Waste of copper looping back to the plastic panel.


They changed the British color code. Had the same problem telephone here. From 4 wire to the category cables.



What's the requirement? Reinspect electrical for a pool, resi rental, and residential 1, 5, and 10 years?

Higher standards? Where do you plug in a hair drier? Electric shaver only in bathrooms still?

I've seen plenty of solid jobs done decades before the BS electrical came out, still operating just fine. But hey, they are doing pretty good for just getting electrical.
 

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Yeah; I've definitely had that problem -especially sucks when the panel is already existing. I remember the first time I thought I was so *clever* putting the connector on the wire and fishing it "right into the panel!" I thought I was so brilliant ...and then I couldn't understand why I just couldn't get it to go in...:blink:
My inspector has been cool with me putting in a romex connector upside-down though. Or same with a tomic connector (I think some people call them "butterfly" connectors).

...And Holy Sh!t!!! That panel pic is scarey!
I can easily imagine this scenario:
"No problem honey, I'll just put a nail in the wall to hang this picture" (on the other side of the wall...)
Most walls are 4 5/8" thick, in nails that would be a spike.
 

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I don't recall the last new panel I worked on where the KOs were hard to take out. That includes square d, siemens, ch br, and ge. I just don't see this as an issue.

For the front row of KOs with a flush mounted panel I use 2 screw steel connectors. Same if I am using steel boxes for wall sconces or whatever. They give the rocker more room, and pretty cheap, anyway.
 

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Yeah; I've definitely had that problem -especially sucks when the panel is already existing. I remember the first time I thought I was so *clever* putting the connector on the wire and fishing it "right into the panel!" I thought I was so brilliant ...and then I couldn't understand why I just couldn't get it to go in...:blink:
My inspector has been cool with me putting in a romex connector upside-down though. Or same with a tomic connector (I think some people call them "butterfly" connectors).

...And Holy Sh!t!!! That panel pic is scarey!
I can easily imagine this scenario:
"No problem honey, I'll just put a nail in the wall to hang this picture" (on the other side of the wall...)
They make a few different style connectors that can be inserted from the inside of the enclosure.
 

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I don't recall the last new panel I worked on where the KOs were hard to take out. That includes square d, siemens, ch br, and ge. I just don't see this as an issue.
It took me about 15 hard slams to get the KO out of a CH-CH panel the other day. New Siemens PL series KOs are a pain in the ass too. The ES series which are the same backpanel as Murray are nice, thinner gauge steel and much easier to open KO's.
 

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The hardest knockout I've ever run across are the run of the mill milbank meter cans. Those knockout lines are just painted on. Most breaker panels push in with your finger but milbank....
 

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Some KOs are just easier to take out with a hole saw or hole cutter.
 

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Looks like the way many looped the telephones a long time ago.
Waste of copper looping back to the plastic panel.


They changed the British color code. Had the same problem telephone here. From 4 wire to the category cables.



What's the requirement? Reinspect electrical for a pool, resi rental, and residential 1, 5, and 10 years?

Higher standards? Where do you plug in a hair drier? Electric shaver only in bathrooms still?

I've seen plenty of solid jobs done decades before the BS electrical came out, still operating just fine. But hey, they are doing pretty good for just getting electrical.
The old coal fire times are gone now....yes there are outlets in the bathrooms for hair dryers and of course still point of use electric instantaneous for showers often .Look at "you tube" for the testing that happens now .The ring main style was designed to save copper after WW2 .
 

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Bath GFI (RCD)
BS - no closer than 3m (9.8’) from edge of zone 1 (edge of tub or shower area) need to have good size bathroom to dry hair
NEC - Yes

Code editions
BS -18
NEC - 36???

Number of pages
BS (17th edition) 404
NEC (2014) 909+

Periodic testing required residential electrical
BS - Yes - Resi owned every 10 years, sale of resi, & rental resi 5 years

NEC - GFI & AF only, can be done by user

Ground electrode (earth electrode) under
BS - 200 ohms recommended
NEC - 25 ohms or add more

Grounding electrode terminal block / splices (earthling terminal)
BS - Anywhere
NEC - Meter, 1st disconnect, or irreversible

Smoke detectors (smoke alarms)
Min required for 4 bedroom, 2 story single family home, all bedrooms on 2nd floor within 15’ of each other
BS - 2 (not required in BR, only circulating areas)
NEC - 6




 

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Yes; yes ...I've dealt with the old stuff with fuse wires ; the newer panels are all okay....it's the same stuff in NZ - Aussie - S Africa - Italy - Spain and on and on . Not in N America for we're so special ! "Protecting your turf "comes to mind ....Some of the so called Eurotrash stuff isn,t even from China ! N America gets all that stuff ! We have crap instals here as well.
 

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Only the Euros can make a square d panel loaded with plug on arc fault breakers look nice and roomy.
 
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