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Starting Union Shop

32K views 157 replies 27 participants last post by  Sacwhit 
#1 ·
Good day to all Wireman!

What does it take to start a Union Shop?
 
#6 ·
you aren't going to find work for a 1 man union shop...and once you start bidding union work, you are going to need 5 -10 men right away...at $3500/week avg salary..that equals a decent sized nut to cover + material and OH, until you start collecting a draw...

signing up isn't bad...it's financing the work that is expensive
 
#10 ·
All it takes is contacting your local...ummm...local and getting the paperwork in order. Typically that means insurance and payroll bonding.

I have worked for a few one man shops over the years - when you contact the local be clear about what you want and when you ask for man power, again be clear. Most locals will do their best to keep you in business if you are clear about what you want and what you can offer.

Best of luck.
 
#11 ·
Talk to your BA.
I have been doing this for years.
I have very very good PPO family healthcare including dental and vision and pay into a local and international pension plan, all for about 1400 per month.
If I ever need help, I can get people out on a short call if needed and then send them back when done.

Just be sure to keep up your pension. You will not regret this advise.
 
#13 ·
eejack said:
All it takes is contacting your local...ummm...local and getting the paperwork in order. Typically that means insurance and payroll bonding.

I have worked for a few one man shops over the years - when you contact the local be clear about what you want and when you ask for man power, again be clear. Most locals will do their best to keep you in business if you are clear about what you want and what you can offer.

Best of luck.
Its not about what he can offer. Its about what can they offer him.
 
#14 ·
Here is my advice to someone looking to become a "union shop".
IMO there's 5 keys to success. If you screw up just one, you will lose money.

First off, on the administrative side there are two things that are imperative.

1) Estimating Skills.
Your margin of error is slim to none. Every single bid must be gone through with a fine tooth comb. You cannot afford to miss anything.
2) Cash Flow.
You have to have cash flow and have it in reserves. Ever see the scene in Good Fella's where Ray Liotta is explaining what it's like to have "Pauly" as a partner?
"Business is slow....F*ck you pay me"
"Had a fire........F*ck you pay me"
"Ohhh you got struck by lightning.........F*ck you pay me!"
That's what it's like when you sign on. You have to have the money every month, month after month for the dues & health/welfare.

The other three are all about being proficient.
You must supply all three of these to the labor in the field at all times. Missing one ingredient and your losing money.

1)Tools.
2)Material.
3)Information.

You meet these requirements and you can be successful.
Good luck.
 
#17 ·
2) Cash Flow.
You have to have cash flow and have it in reserves. Ever see the scene in Good Fella's where Ray Liotta is explaining what it's like to have "Pauly" as a partner?
"Business is slow....F*ck you pay me"
"Had a fire........F*ck you pay me"
"Ohhh you got struck by lightning.........F*ck you pay me!"
That's what it's like when you sign on. You have to have the money every month, month after month for the dues & health/welfare.
Unlike Pauly, the money is for the men's benefits.
 
#15 ·
In 2006 I went down to the local hall to find out what all was involved in becoming a one man union shop. Agent wasn't much help so he referred me to the organizer. I left a message with the organizer who was on vacation at the time to get back to me because I had a list of questions. I'm still waiting on that call.

What I did find out is you have to pay a certain amount to the union regardless if you have any work. You cannot participate in the pension unless you also pay into the medical plan. The medical costs around 10k-11k per year minimum. I purchased my own medical for under 2k per year. I also am in charge of my own retirement. With the possibility of corruption, the union plan may not be there when I retire. I also found an online version of the hall if I need guys. It's called Craigslist.

After my research was complete, I believe there is absolutely zero benefit for a one man shop to go union.
 
#19 ·
slickvic277 said:
I would love to know what kind of medical you got for under 2k a year. Sounds like a great deal.
Anthem - "major accident" policy. 1k deductible. Low deductible no longer offered to new subscribers. Plus vision/dental/life. Only for myself. My boy is on my ex's policy.

I have to pay for office visits. $40-80. Credited to my deductible. No prescription benefits. Don't need them. I get my meds from Target for $4. I even get meds for my dogs there for $4.

I do need to look into a disability type policy, though.
 
#43 ·
While any contractor gets well trained and motivated folks from our hall, the issue is more along the lines of the type of work being done. Small shops tend to do smaller work - usually with less support.

Typically our hall sends out a foreman who is used to dealing with small shops - and when a call hits the day room for a small shop it usually gets a special mention.
 
#44 ·
eejack said:
While any contractor gets well trained and motivated folks from our hall, the issue is more along the lines of the type of work being done. Small shops tend to do smaller work - usually with less support.

Typically our hall sends out a foreman who is used to dealing with small shops - and when a call hits the day room for a small shop it usually gets a special mention.
Sp all these great hands are just sitting around the hall?
 
#52 ·
slickvic277 said:
Here is my advice to someone looking to become a "union shop".
IMO there's 5 keys to success. If you screw up just one, you will lose money.

First off, on the administrative side there are two things that are imperative.

1) Estimating Skills.
Your margin of error is slim to none. Every single bid must be gone through with a fine tooth comb. You cannot afford to miss anything.
2) Cash Flow.
You have to have cash flow and have it in reserves. Ever see the scene in Good Fella's where Ray Liotta is explaining what it's like to have "Pauly" as a partner?
"Business is slow....F*ck you pay me"
"Had a fire........F*ck you pay me"
"Ohhh you got struck by lightning.........F*ck you pay me!"
That's what it's like when you sign on. You have to have the money every month, month after month for the dues & health/welfare.

The other three are all about being proficient.
You must supply all three of these to the labor in the field at all times. Missing one ingredient and your losing money.

1)Tools.
2)Material.
3)Information.

You meet these requirements and you can be successful.
Good luck.
great advice for any business man!

i dont understand that alot of contractors lack the last 3 thats where alot of money is lost!!!!!
 
#88 ·
eejack said:
Okay.

I bid ( and win ) the first job that comes up. I rent the paver, hire a couple of high school kids and screw up the job. No big loss me as I probably got a partial payment. Your contractor buddy didn't get this job.

Now - I am never allowed to bid again - bad bidders are not allowed to repeat ( at least in NJ - not sure nationwide ).

But since it was so cheap to make the attempt to bid, this happens over and over again. Each time, your contractor buddy doesn't get the job because, as a responsible contractor he knows he cannot do the work for what the bid gets won at.

Prevailing wage ( and all the paperwork and bonding et. al. that goes with it ) makes access into bidding public works more difficult, and helps the level the field so qualified contractors can bid.

As far as your claim that prevailing wages increase the cost of goods ninefold ( three streets to one, labor being only a portion of the cost of the job - say a third ), that is a bit reckless.
First off if you have no previous track record of completing jobs of the size bid your low bid would get tossed so that negates your claim.

Your level the field claim is code for it helps the overpriced unions a chance

Along with the labor cost going up the compliance regulations increase admin costs

A private sector Job should be no different than a public works job when it comes to bidding.
 
#95 ·
I have worked in the private sector. No - not all ECs use unskilled labor. Many do however. Even public work jobs use unskilled labor.

Quick anecdote and I am out of this round and round discussion.

I went to rough in an alarm system for a friend of mine. The contractor had gone around spray painting colored marks on the studs. White for 14, yellow for 12, orange for 10, blue for box. He went down and got day laborers who drilled holes and pulled wires based on those marks. He had his 'smart' laborer nailing up the boxes. Then he had an apprentice type put all the wires in the boxes and strip them. He had some hand tools and he set up the reels on reel jacks.

When I spoke to the apprentice he said he got maybe 3 days of work a week from the contractor and he explained there was an experienced
fellow who followed up behind him who did the panel and the kitchen.

So there - a couple of mechanics doing a simple days work - now being done by day laborers. You think you couldn't teach someone to install receptacles...lighting?

There is not a task out there than cannot be demystified and made so simple that nearly anyone can do it with little or no training. The larger the job, the easier that is.

You will not remain worth whatever you think you are worth when the rules allow you to be worth minimum wage ( or less ). Any alleged tax savings will never make up for your loss of actual income.
 
#99 ·
I love the union Gus who try and defend Davis Beacon as being good for anyone but them and protecting a small part of thier even smaller market. This is one of the reasons many municipalities and even state government do lease back when they need s new building.
 
#110 ·
007 said:
108 post and you think the topic will never change? I don't despise unions I just despise being forced to have my tax dollars pay more for a project just because it falls under an antiquated law. With an ever decreasing market share I do not see any advantage to the contractor.
I think the advantage to the contractor is a skilled workforce. The security and well-being of their workers at home and the job add value to his company and reputation due to a sustained positive and productive crew. In turn the contractor reaps rewards manifold.
 
#111 ·
I believe that, like communism, that's a great theory....but reality doesn't always agree with theory.

Can't tell you how many "qualified" journeymen we've employed over the years who couldn't think their way out of a paper bag.

The union needs to uphold their end of the bargain.
 
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