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It cannot be the vast majority since the majority of States are now RTW. And the example given in the article is Oregon which has high union density, obviously the exception and not the rule.
Also, if open shop contractors are not submitting wage reports (which I agree with you) then they have no one to blame but themselves. Again bringing me back to the fact that non union play a bigger role in PW then portrayed.
Union contractors are mandated in their contract to report wages so thier is a higher probability that thier wages are the ones used but that does not change the fact hat this law does nothing but protect unions and increases costs of public works projects. We could do away with it and let market forces dictate costs just as private sector jobs do.
 
Union contractors are mandated in their contract to report wages so thier is a higher probability that thier wages are the ones used but that does not change the fact hat this law does nothing but protect unions and increases costs of public works projects. We could do away with it and let market forces dictate costs just as private sector jobs do.
Mandated to report their wages to who?
When the States do rate surveys all contractors are informed and asked to participate.
 
I have worked on BOTH sides of the fence, and I can tell you from FIRST HAND experience that from the electrician's standpoint, union jobs are by and large SAFER, BETTER QUALITY, AND MEET DEADLINES AS OFTEN AS NON-UNION JOBS.

That is what I have seen with my very own eyes... Safety prevents lost man-hours and keeps productivity up. This prevents wasted tax-payer money. Safety prevents the job being shut down in the tragic event of a fatality. This prevents wasted tax-payer money. Better quality prevents tasks being re-done a 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 5th time. This prevents wasted tax-payer money. Meeting deadlines prevents wasted tax-payer money.

Are there any facts from reputable sources that disprove what I am saying?
 
I have worked on BOTH sides of the fence, and I can tell you from FIRST HAND experience that from the electrician's standpoint, union jobs are by and large SAFER, BETTER QUALITY, AND MEET DEADLINES AS OFTEN AS NON-UNION JOBS.

That is what I have see with my very own eyes... Safety prevents lost man-hours and keeps productivity up. This prevents wasted tax-payer money. Safety prevents the job being shut down in the tragic event of a fatality. This prevents wasted tax-payer money. Better quality prevents tasks being re-done a 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 5th time. This prevents wasted tax-payer money. Meeting deadlines prevents wasted tax-payer money.

Are there any facts from reputable sources that disprove what I am saying?
Stop it. The adults are talking.
 
I have worked on BOTH sides of the fence, and I can tell you from FIRST HAND experience that from the electrician's standpoint, union jobs are by and large SAFER, BETTER QUALITY, AND MEET DEADLINES AS OFTEN AS NON-UNION JOBS.

That is what I have seen with my very own eyes... Safety prevents lost man-hours and keeps productivity up. This prevents wasted tax-payer money. Safety prevents the job being shut down in the tragic event of a fatality. This prevents wasted tax-payer money. Better quality prevents tasks being re-done a 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 5th time. This prevents wasted tax-payer money. Meeting deadlines prevents wasted tax-payer money.

Are there any facts from reputable sources that disprove what I am saying?
Are thier any reputable sources to back up what you claim? :whistling2:
 
I don't see your point. My point is thier is no longer a need for Davis Bacon and it should be repealed. I have seen nothing that would change my position.
No, your point has been to blame unions for inflated (which is your opinion) public works cost. My point is that your using Davis Bacon as an avenue to push your anti union agenda.Which is a FAIL because you refuse to recognize that the non union is more responsible for the PW rate then the unions could ever be at this point.

I have made several valid points and you ignored all of them.
Another big mouth exposed.
 
No, your point has been to blame unions for inflated (which is your opinion) public works cost. My point is that your using Davis Bacon as an avenue to push your anti union agenda.Which is a FAIL because you refuse to recognize that the non union is more responsible for the PW rate then the unions could ever be at this point.

I have made several valid points and you ignored all of them.
Another big mouth exposed.
Unions have more of an influence on PW because they are mandated to report thier wages non union are not mandated and more likely not to report the wages. If one union contractor reports wages in a county a no non union contractors do then the wage is based on the union contractor. These wages are inflated and nothing you have brought up changes that. Your claim that non union does more PW work still does not change the fact that the unions requirement for reporting wages skews the resut so before you have a victory dance you should actually wait to see if you won.
 
No, your point has been to blame unions for inflated (which is your opinion) public works cost. My point is that your using Davis Bacon as an avenue to push your anti union agenda.Which is a FAIL because you refuse to recognize that the non union is more responsible for the PW rate then the unions could ever be at this point.

I have made several valid points and you ignored all of them.
Another big mouth exposed.
So you support the repeal of Davis Bacon
 
Unions have more of an influence on PW because they are mandated to report thier wages non union are not mandated and more likely not to report the wages. If one union contractor reports wages in a county a no non union contractors do then the wage is based on the union contractor. These wages are inflated and nothing you have brought up changes that. Your claim that non union does more PW work still does not change the fact that the unions requirement for reporting wages skews the resut so before you have a victory dance you should actually wait to see if you won.
Wage surveys are only done every several years.
IF contractors under CBA's are mandated to report their wages is debatable. I know for a fact that in my locale the UA did not participate. They feel if PW was abolished they would have an organizing edge in the market. That was their phyloshiphy. Not ours.

The thread (which has strayed from the op) is not really about the effects of Davis Bacon.
Its about people like you making blanket statements that are opinion and not facts. I made several points in the conversation that are valid and contrary to yours and you have avoided them all.

1) Market share in public works is dominated by non union.
2) Open shop contractors have the same opportunity to participate in wage surveys.
3) Davis Bacon is of little effect in RTW States which is now a majority of the country.
4) You continue to blame union contractors for PW rates but fail to recognize the open shops role in that market.
 
Wage surveys are only done every several years.
IF contractors under CBA's are mandated to report their wages is debatable. I know for a fact that in my locale the UA did not participate. They feel if PW was abolished they would have an organizing edge in the market. That was their phyloshiphy. Not ours.

The thread (which has strayed from the op) is not really about the effects of Davis Bacon.
Its about people like you making blanket statements that are opinion and not facts. I made several points in the conversation that are valid and contrary to yours and you have avoided them all.

1) Market share in public works is dominated by non union.
2) Open shop contractors have the same opportunity to participate in wage surveys.
3) Davis Bacon is of little effect in RTW States which is now a majority of the country.
4) You continue to blame union contractors for PW rates but fail to recognize the open shops role in that market.
You have shown nothing to validate non union dominance in the public sector market

I never said merit shops could not participate in the process

RTW has nothing to do with Davis Bacon

The vast majority of support for the continuation of Davis Bacon is from unions many merit shops would like it repealed although a handful may support it

The unions support for this outdated law is do thier direct benefit from it once again it shows the stranglehold unions would like to keep on governments as they can always squeeze taxpayers for more to support thier outrageous pay and benefit packages that are out of line with he private sector
 
You have shown nothing to validate non union dominance in the public sector market

I never said merit shops could not participate in the process

RTW has nothing to do with Davis Bacon

The vast majority of support for the continuation of Davis Bacon is from unions many merit shops would like it repealed although a handful may support it

The unions support for this outdated law is do thier direct benefit from it once again it shows the stranglehold unions would like to keep on governments as they can always squeeze taxpayers for more to support thier outrageous pay and benefit packages that are out of line with he private sector
And you cannot disprove it. You are only making a vague geuss that unions make up the majority of PW work. I'm stating that since the open shop makes up 90% of the market share then sheer numbers alone would lead one to the conclusion of their domination of that market too.

You argue that the unions are the soul supporters of DB. Yet you continue to ignore the fact that the open shop has every chance to influence the rate. If you are indeed against the DB you should motivate your open shop counter parts to get off their lazy asses and spend 30 minutes to fill out the damn survey.
 
You have shown nothing to validate non union dominance in the public sector market

I never said merit shops could not participate in the process

RTW has nothing to do with Davis Bacon

The vast majority of support for the continuation of Davis Bacon is from unions many merit shops would like it repealed although a handful may support it

The unions support for this outdated law is do thier direct benefit from it once again it shows the stranglehold unions would like to keep on governments as they can always squeeze taxpayers for more to support thier outrageous pay and benefit packages that are out of line with he private sector
I'm curious what you think is outrageous pay. What kind of dollar amount or difference? Plus not all union work is in the public sector. Out of the 23 years of union electrical work, I have worked maybe a total of a year in some type of job that was bid to the government. So I have 22 years in the private sector and don't think my compensation is out of line.
 
jimmy21 said:
I find it funny that open shops have such a hard time competing when the wages paid are equal. Why is that again?
Because without an approved apprentiship program they must pay everyone atJW scale thus puts then at a disadvantage to inion shops who can pay a lower % of scale for apprentices. That is why many merit shops join ABC.
 
347sparky said:
i'm curious what you think is outrageous pay. What kind of dollar amount or difference? Plus not all union work is in the public sector. Out of the 23 years of union electrical work, i have worked maybe a total of a year in some type of job that was bid to the government. So i have 22 years in the private sector and don't think my compensation is out of line.
pla ?
 
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