So what you think is outrageous pay? If I'm on a gov't job or not I'm getting the same amount. I don't know what union scale is in your area but how much are we talking about? Or how much difference? There has to be a number. You would think 22 years of doing private sector work our customers would say "wow! you cost way too much!" What really happens is the service rate or bid for "merit" shops is about equal but just a little less than most union shops so thier profit margin is larger because they don't pay the outrageous wage and benefits.
So what you think is outrageous pay? If I'm on a gov't job or not I'm getting the same amount. I don't know what union scale is in your area but how much are we talking about? Or how much difference? There has to be a number. You would think 22 years of doing private sector work our customers would say "wow! you cost way too much!" What really happens is the service rate or bid for "merit" shops is about equal but just a little less than most union shops so thier profit margin is larger because they don't pay the outrageous wage and benefits.
Take a state like Texas do you think Huston electricians are making the same as Cut And Shoot electricians? With Davis Bacon the answer would be yes regardless of what was real for those areas.
So what you think is outrageous pay? If I'm on a gov't job or not I'm getting the same amount. I don't know what union scale is in your area but how much are we talking about? Or how much difference? There has to be a number. You would think 22 years of doing private sector work our customers would say "wow! you cost way too much!" What really happens is the service rate or bid for "merit" shops is about equal but just a little less than most union shops so thier profit margin is larger because they don't pay the outrageous wage and benefits.
So they have more profit for their "job creators". I get good wage, benefits, and a free great education. My boss and owner still makes a good profit as well.
Non union (around here) gets minimum wage, pays for their own education and pays all their benefits. They all brag about a week of payed vacation. Sounds like I have a better deal.
So non union people bitch about PLA's wasting their tax dollars. They bitch about unions and our high wages. It must be pure jealously and instead of joining the union or fighting to get more of their "job creators" profit they choose to try to destroy what the union has created. They just want to bring the union down to their level. It's frightening that that's the direction of the USA. take whatever pay your masters will give you and just be thankful you have a job. It's a complete BS.
Take a state like Texas do you think Huston electricians are making the same as Cut And Shoot electricians? With Davis Bacon the answer would be yes regardless of what was real for those areas.
So what you think is outrageous pay? If I'm on a gov't job or not I'm getting the same amount. I don't know what union scale is in your area but how much are we talking about? Or how much difference? There has to be a number.
So what you think is outrageous pay? If I'm on a gov't job or not I'm getting the same amount. I don't know what union scale is in your area but how much are we talking about? Or how much difference? There has to be a number.
Cut and Shoot is a small Texas town . I have seen total package almost double merit shop many will be close on the check amount but off on benefit package.In our area it would be about a 10-15 dollar difference between what merit shop total package and union total package. In some areas I have no doubt it may be less and in some it may be more.
No we are not union. I was back in 81 things were bad similar to now and the politics and favoritism finally got to me and I dropped my ticket. When your a good hand but get passed over on a call because you are not the BA s buddy well it's time to look to greener pastures. Things were probably different back then .
Cut and Shoot is a small Texas town . I have seen total package almost double merit shop many will be close on the check amount but off on benefit package.In our area it would be about a 10-15 dollar difference between what merit shop total package and union total package. In some areas I have no doubt it may be less and in some it may be more.
I don't know what the merit shop rates are around here, I'm sure they vary between contractors. I still don't think I have an outrageous hourly rate and the contractor has agreed on the pay rate for all jobs, commercial, industrial, and residential (excluding any D-B jobs which would be the same anyway).
Years ago I worked for a large contractor that had shops in 3 cities in the state and we worked just inside the next state on a short project. We picked up a couple guys from the local hall and had 4 different pay scales going on, $10 difference from low to high. EC policy was you got the highest scale between the home local and new area, that narrowed it up to about $5 low to high, still a fair difference in wages within regions of one state.
You worry about D-B jobs costing taxpayers too much but like I said earlier I have seen the other side of the coin, shortcuts and unqualified workers on 3 school jobs that I was personally there while doing other work. That's not a blanket statement on non union work because I have seen some nice stuff too. Just saying when they have to take the lowest bid, sometimes they get exactly what they pay for.
I'm sick of this low bid crap. Make some type of scale as to their competency to complete the job. When it comes to government jobs and low bids, most of the time it equals crap work.
I'm sick of this low bid crap. Make some type of scale as to their competency to complete the job. When it comes to government jobs and low bids, most of the time it equals crap work.
LN, the majority of government jobs employ what is called a "value bid" process. Where the lowest bid isn't always the determining factor. Other factors that will be looked at are, the contractors experience, safety records, women & minority participation, employee training, etc. Then the awarding agency comes with a score card along with the bid number and awards the project based on that criteria.
Often the lowest number will not even be considered. Especially on federal works. What the awarding agency has is a window amount. They are looking for a number between a certain window. If your bid is out of that window, it gets tossed. Both high and low.
Guys, this 007 is trolling you. He knows everything about the union because he claims he was a member over 30 years ago, knows everything about PW work yet he operates a Mr. Sparky franchise, and of all things, is cross eyed.:laughing:
LN, the majority of government jobs employ what is called a "value bid" process. Where the lowest bid isn't always the determining factor. Other factors that will be looked at are, the contractors experience, safety records, women & minority participation, employee training, etc. Then the awarding agency comes with a score card along with the bid number and awards the project based on that criteria.
Often the lowest number will not even be considered. Especially on federal works. What the awarding agency has is a window amount. They are looking for a number between a certain window. If your bid is out of that window, it gets tossed. Both high and low.
Guys, this 007 is trolling you. He knows everything about the union because he claims he was a member over 30 years ago, knows everything about PW work yet he operates a Mr. Sparky franchise, and of all things, is cross eyed.:laughing:
The unions support for this outdated law is do thier direct benefit from it once again it shows the stranglehold unions would like to keep on governments as they can always squeeze taxpayers for more to support thier outrageous pay and benefit packages that are out of line with he private sector
No we are not union. I was back in 81 things were bad similar to now and the politics and favoritism finally got to me and I dropped my ticket. When your a good hand but get passed over on a call because you are not the BA s buddy well it's time to look to greener pastures. Things were probably different back then .
As a one man shop or a small 2-5 man shop with nom plans for growth, there is little reason to be union.
The benefits and wages can easily be matched by a caring owner and he avoids any union interference. IF ANY, not saying there would be just one last party to deal with.
As an open shop if you match or exceed union scale and benefits you will still pocket more profits from jobs, avoiding the added cost of being union.
As a one man shop or a small 2-5 man shop with nom plans for growth, there is little reason to be union.
The benefits and wages can easily be matched by a caring owner and he avoids any union interference. IF ANY, not saying there would be just one last party to deal with.
As an open shop if you match or exceed union scale and benefits you will still pocket more profits from jobs, avoiding the added cost of being union.
Conversely, as a union shop you have fixed labor costs and instant/on demand labor. You even have access to specialty labor ( at least in my local ) such as high voltage splicers or communication workers etc. that come with training and certifications.
This labor pool means you can hire at whim and when you slow down, you can lay off at whim as well. No carrying expensive workers when you are slow.
Edit: added this
As far as the overall cost - beyond labor and per hour costs there is the matter of carrying a bond with the local. I cannot imagine, if one 'matches or exceeds union scale and benefits' as brian john put it, that the labor cost would be very different. In some respects, I suspect the union costs would be lower as it is a larger organization and you have economies of scale, but that is a guess.
Beyond the carrying the bond, there are no special union expenses.
Talk to your BA.
I have been doing this for years.
I have very very good PPO family healthcare including dental and vision and pay into a local and international pension plan, all for about 1400 per month.
If I ever need help, I can get people out on a short call if needed and then send them back when done.
Just be sure to keep up your pension. You will not regret this advise.
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