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Discussion Starter #22
They do make the AFCI receptacle
Who makes that? Looks Chinese.
The domain where the pic is looks sketchy at best.



Either way, it does not meet the requirements of the code, unless you can take advantage of Exception No. 1 to 210.12(A), which is highly unlikely in an existing situation.
 

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Who makes that? Looks Chinese.
The domain where the pic is looks sketchy at best.



Either way, it does not meet the requirements of the code, unless you can take advantage of Exception No. 1 to 210.12(A), which is highly unlikely in an existing situation.

http://true-safe.com/prod-afci - outlet.html
The company address is in Florida and yes you would have to protect the whole circuit not just receptacles, just as an AFCI breaker would. I do not know the cost or the availability.
 

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Purchasing Our Products

Please check back soon for a list of our distribution and sales locations for True-Safe products.





It's mighty new to the market then Judy....hasn't even had a chance to be picked apart, kudo's if this product is for real here

~CS~
 

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[spoiler alert]



Our Technology

True-Safe Technologies, Inc has developed a revolutionary AFCI technology that will bring safety, security and peace of mind to residential and commercial property owners. To appreciate, one has to understand what the technology is protecting against; fires from electrical arcs. The next logical question then is, what is an arc?
What is an arc?

Majority of consumers are under the impression that electrical fires are caused by short circuits represented by an explosive sound (a big bang), or overload. Although these can as well cause fires, most electrical fires are caused by the phenomena called arcing which are mainly classified as low and high current arcing. Low current arcing occurs along a wire or conductor when it is cut but sections are not completely isolated from each other, or when a terminal connection is loose causing an intermittent flow of current in the circuit. High current arcing occurs when an unstable current path is established between two parallel conductors resulting from a breakdown of insulation, or a pinge, causing an intermittent flow of current. These arcing conditions are equally destructive in that the heat generated gets so intense that can burn the insulation and ultimately the surrounding materials resulting in structural fire.
The National Fire Protection Agency notes that in 2006 alone, electrical fires damaged approximately 52,500 homes, killed 340 people, and cost $1.447 billion in property damage. Although short circuits and overloads account for some of these fires, arcs are responsible for the majority and are undetectable by traditional (non-AFCI) circuit breakers.
AFCIs function by monitoring the electrical characteristics of a circuit and promptly isolating (interrupting) it from the power source when an arcing condition is detected. To be commercially viable, they must be capable of distinguishing between safe or normal arcs from arcs that can cause fire. True-Safe’s AFCI receptacle outlets will be the first of its kind..

[/spoiler alert]


~CS~
 

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Because the 2011 NEC requires GFCI protection when you replace a receptacle that is located where current NEC requires GFCI protection. The same gets added for AFCI on 01/01/2014.

The protection requirement is only for the receptacle that is replaced and not for the entire circuit.

Wonder over to 406 for a more complete explination.

I did not see how the NY official called for that. It appears she was only calling for GFCI and AFCI for new circuits only.

Maybe I read her wrong, but that's what I got out of it.

What's your take?
 

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Perhaps it's that this was a Feb 2011 post, and the 2011 wasn't yet adopted

either way the document needs a tune up, with passages like>

Type "S" fuses shall be installed when fused equipment is used.
~CS~
 

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Discussion Starter #32
Because the 2011 NEC requires GFCI protection when you replace a receptacle that is located where current NEC requires GFCI protection. The same gets added for AFCI on 01/01/2014.

The protection requirement is only for the receptacle that is replaced and not for the entire circuit.

Wonder over to 406 for a more complete explination.

I did not see how the NY official called for that. It appears she was only calling for GFCI and AFCI for new circuits only.

Maybe I read her wrong, but that's what I got out of it.

What's your take?
That was not the original topic or the question.
The question was do you need to install arc-fault breakers when doing a panel change or service upgrade. The answer is still no.
Neither of these things alters the branch circuit so no arc-fault is required.

With regard to the last sentence you do have a point. The writer expanded on the original question.
 

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The distinction between repair and new install was addressed in Vt over a decade ago Pete

that Mz 'Cheryl A. Fischer, P.E. Assistant Director for Code Interpretation' (Vt has no such entity, instead depends on NFPA interpetartions) is just NOW copy/pasting her take to what appears to be NY's version of dead sea scrolls is a point i would imagine every NY sparky could take issue with

especially in light of all the past installs, inclusion of version 1 afci's ,lack of double pole afci's , or simply no afci's

who's liable retrocatively for the state draggin' it's heels is the first thought that comes to mind.....

You folks do know we're in a new millenium....?

~CS~
 

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Discussion Starter #34
The distinction between repair and new install was addressed in Vt over a decade ago Pete

that Mz 'Cheryl A. Fischer, P.E. Assistant Director for Code Interpretation' (Vt has no such entity, instead depends on NFPA interpetartions) is just NOW copy/pasting her take to what appears to be NY's version of dead sea scrolls is a point i would imagine every NY sparky could take issue with

especially in light of all the past installs, inclusion of version 1 afci's ,lack of double pole afci's , or simply no afci's

who's liable retrocatively for the state draggin' it's heels is the first thought that comes to mind.....

You folks do know we're in a new millenium....?

~CS~
And this means...............?
 

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And this means...............?
I thought it fairly clear, but will go ONE step @ a time for you.....:rolleyes:

When did NY adopt 210.12 B Pete?

210.12 B was written some time ago, right?

If in fact NY JUST adopted 210.12 B, and your 'minister of electrical interpetation' is just now addressing retrofits, then my querie is moot

However, if NY adopted 210.12B some time ago, and is just NOW addressing those retrofits , then there exists a time where they were to be of what compliance?

If they were to adhere to 210.12B, they would have been held to doing so even though the technology did not exist (2 pole afci's at one time being the chief culprit)

So.....In the latter case, where does the onus of liability rest?

Is the contractor liable for past retro's w/o afci's? Or would NY state claim soverign immunity for what clearly should have been thier decision from the time 210.12B was adopted?

does that clear it up?

~CS~
 

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My understanding is that arc fault is only for new circuits, as it would cause nuisance tripping. As far as the arc fault receptacle as I stated earlier I did not research it I only know that they are avaliable. I would think that perhaps they may be line and load as gfi are so you could protect the circuit at the begining. I personaly have had issues with motors ie. fans tripping the arc fault breaker, perhaps this is an alternative? Again I have not done the research to see how they work and where they could be used. Keep in mind that there are GFI breakers as well as receptacles and both are used for differant reasons.
http://www.onestopbuy.com/leviton/AFTR1-GY-63161.asp?pt=frAFTR1-GY&gclid=CMfq6Jns57QCFXCmPAodpAIA2w
:grin:
 

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They do now !

Hope I'm not getting in to late. I wouldn't install afci in that situation. In the 2011 under articl 210.12 afci that any exstension from an existing circuit is required to have afci protection installed either at the point of connection to the existing circuit or at the origin of the existing circuit.

:blink: No one makes a afci receptacle yet ,that I'm awair of.
Good improvement IMO :)
 

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toolaholic
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May i suggest you start here

~CS~
Thanks steve I do own the 2011 NEC. In My community they are more strict on a lot. Just did a new 200 amp panel on 60 Year old home. afci for bedrooms required.
Also installed a new 50 Gal Bradford White Gas Water Heater. Bond Hot to Cold to Gas pipe. I saw a recent post showing No Gas Clamp on thee bond ! Just H. N Cold ?
 
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