Union or Non-Union? (only constructive thoughts please)

68881 Views 285 Replies 70 Participants Last post by Speedy Petey, Jul 14, 2010

Mike M.

Discussion Starter · Sep 4, 2007

Hello to everyone this is my first post around here. I am at a standstill about what I should do, so Im looking for some experienced opinions that might help me out. Also I realize this is a sensitive subject, but I am not looking to get into a philosophical argument about unions.

I am about to graduate from a 2yr technical school, and basically with the way my state board works, I have 2 options to get my Journeyman's license.

Option 1 - Join my local IBEW. Get credit for 2 years of the apprentice program, but will still have to complete 3 more years of union school.

Option 2 - Get on with a private contractor. Do 4000 hours of work experience, and won't have to go to school at night.

What I am mainly concerned with is the actual work experience. I would like to have my own shop at some point and I want to get experience doing more complex work (I'm not very interested in residential). Am I missing out by not attending the union school? Is most of the commercial/industrial work done by union shops? Please post any thoughts you have on this subject. Thanks

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Joe Momma

· #2 · Sep 4, 2007

What part of the country your in makes a big difference

Here with the union in Utah we do day schooling(collect unemployment for a week every 2 months and go to school)

The comm. cllege is over 600 for tuition, the union is 250.

The pass rate for the JW test is in the 90's for union and I believe in the 40's for non-union

guschash

· #3 · Sep 5, 2007

In my area, the union apprentice program turns out very knowledgeable electricians.They are well rounded. They have continueing education for all their members. I never had the chance to go through their program and always wish I had.

brian john

· #4 · Sep 5, 2007

In general, and strictly my opinion with the union you get better pay, better benefits and The big one, even if you get better pay and benefits with an open shop, should the owner die, retire or just quit you are not guaranteed that same pay and benefits elsewhere (HIGHLY UNLIKELY YOU"LL FIND A BETTER PAY AND BENNIES THAN UNION IN THE FIRST PLACE). But union pay and benefits carry with you from job to job.

Having said that in my area the best electricians are union, not from union training but more from the fact that the best electricians seek out the best pay and that is union pay and benefits.

There are a few top notch electricians that work for a few open shops, these shops are operated by GREAT fellows that retain their trained men with the best pay and benifits.

I am managment and having a union shop cost me more money out of my pocket, but I feel the expense is worth it to have secure family men.

John

· #5 · Sep 5, 2007

I have been both and there is no real difference to me. Being union is part of the job, not the job. So look for a job that you want and if being or not being union is part of the job, so be it. There are a lot of good jobs out there both union and non-union.

leftyguitarjoe

· #6 · Sep 6, 2007

I prefer my merit shop employer, simply because I want to be paid more.

MDShunk

· #7 · Sep 6, 2007

Hey, Lefty! Long time, no see.

For the benefit of others, would you mind explaining the difference between a merit shop and a typical non-union or open shop?

Joe Momma

· #8 · Sep 6, 2007

John said:
I have been both and there is no real difference to me. Being union is part of the job, not the job. So look for a job that you want and if being or not being union is part of the job, so be it. There are a lot of good jobs out there both union and non-union.

I have been both as well, and though your opinion is welcomed, no one can decide if they like a union shop unless they are accepted by the union.

"being or not-being union" does not explain much, I think the OP was asking for a little more insight. Such as who will take the best care of him(while working and when he's too old to work), paywise and benefit-wise.

And Lefty, can you also explain your package?
I apologize for keeping this thread fact driven.

brian john

· #9 · Sep 6, 2007

simply because I want to be paid more

Paid more? Please explain.

Mike M.

Discussion Starter · #10 · Sep 6, 2007

Thanks for the intelligent responses and differing viewpoints everyone. They are definitely helping to make my decision easier.

leftyguitarjoe

· #11 · Sep 7, 2007

brian john said:
Paid more? Please explain.

in my area, a 1st year gets about $12-14 an hour in union. At Tri-M, between $17-$20 depending on how you test out or if you have been summer help. Tri-M will give you a raise every 6 months IF you work hard. Union in my area does a $2.50 (or something near that) once a year.

brian john

· #12 · Sep 7, 2007

And what about your benefits Health & Welfare, retirement?

Joe Momma

· #13 · Sep 8, 2007

Another thing;
I was talking to a non-union buddy and he told me his cordless sawz-all crapped out at work. I just laughed at him and said there goes your next paycheck.

Union guys only buy their own hand tools(most of which have lifetime warranty's)

Speedy Petey

· #14 · Sep 8, 2007

Joe Momma said:
Union guys only buy their own hand tools(most of which have lifetime warranty's)

How does this differ from non-union shops??? EVERY independent contractor I know, or have ever worked for has been the same way.
If a shop "requires" a man to buy power tools they are in the WRONG. Period!

If you want a toy cordless sawzall, go buy one. If you want any weird power tool go get whatever you want. Just don't ask me to buy it (chances are I have it already though).
Any needed power tools will be on the truck already. If we need something special and I can justify it I'll buy it.

Around here the unions are a joke when it comes to tools. They buy and throw away perfectly good tools simply because one part breaks, or someone couldn't figure out the proper way to use it (true story). This is how a friend of mine got his 1/2-2" hydraulic KO punch. Some yahoo couldn't figure out how to use it so he said "Piece of junk" and put it in the dumpster. It stayed there for about 13 seconds. This is one quick story. I hear things like this all the time.
The wasted money is SHAMEFUL!

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Joe Momma

· #15 · Sep 8, 2007

Does that also go for cordless drills?(perhaps a dumb question)

oldman

· #16 · Sep 8, 2007

Joe Momma said:
Does that also go for cordless drills?(perhaps a dumb question)

the unions out here don't require contractors to provide cordless tools..
some do...but so do some open shops...purely a personal decision..

joebell

· #17 · Sep 8, 2007

I have worked in open shops from the day I was discharged from the service and have never missed a day of work due to a layoff in almost 20 years. With that being said were Mike is young IMO this is the perfect time to try to get into the union. You can not beat the benefit package they offer. The problem I find with the Union especailly in my area is they are too exclusionary. If the union is the way to be as they (the union bosses)claim Then open the doors, Let all that want to join get sworn in and pay there dues and put them to work and stop putting pressure on the open shops which are just another bunch of hard working people trying to make a living as well.

Joe

brian john

· #18 · Sep 8, 2007

JOEBELL got it 100% right... with all points espically opening the doors to more than sons nephews and close friends (which is still prevelant in some area). You can not tell me all those sons and nephews are any smarter than a few none related boys trying for a better future.

Joe Momma

· #19 · Sep 9, 2007

Say in a given area you have 50 non-union contractors and 50 union contractors comprising of 100% of the work. If the union only does half the work, why would they need 100% of the workforce? A better goal is to go after the well established non-union contractors thus making their steady guys part of the labor force.
If there is no more money to be made, why would you add more guys to the payroll?

joebell

· #20 · Sep 9, 2007

Joe

Around here the unions goal is 100% of the work force and 100% of the work. To obtain that goal they pressure the open shops to convert and sign a CBA. Don't get me wrong its a terrific gig if you can get in but there in lies the problem getting in.

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