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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I see this all the time still. 2 pipes over 24 inches long going into a panel jammed with #12 wires. This panel is being used as a raceway as well with that current limiting panel nippled to the side. Good thing I'm not an inspector. Lets see how the inspection goes

 

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Nice big nipples you have there.
 
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I see this all the time still. 2 pipes over 24 inches long going into a panel jammed with #12 wires. This panel is being used as a raceway as well with that current limiting panel nippled to the side. Good thing I'm not an inspector. Lets see how the inspection goes

View attachment 35386
So Rob-- tell me the issue-- panel may be used as a raceway and you can have up to 9 current carrying conductor in a conduit before derating comes into play
 
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what is so bad? the only thing I would have done different is put 2" pipe between the trough and the panel
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 · (Edited)
There's like 9000 wires in each pipe I don't think you can fit another one in if you tried. These nips are 38 inches long. So they're not really nips anymore. It's now a regular raceway so derating applies. Just put 8 or 9- 1" pipes or 3/4 and your good to go.
 

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If it's not your work, your job, your inspection....... then it ain't your problem.
 

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There's like 9000 wires in each pipe I don't think you can fit another one in if you tried. These nips are 38 inches long. So they're not really nips anymore. It's now a regular raceway so derating applies. Just put 8 or 9- 1" pipes or 3/4 and your good to go.
I think you are exaggerating slightly. 9000 wires would require a 4,500 circuit panel (I think Square D makes one in the QO line) and a much bigger gutter. :)

As for the raceway/nipple debate I have always felt that the Code is off base on this one. Anything less than 10 feet IMHO is NOT enough close-in wireway to need derating. Others experiences may vary, and someone may have seen otherwise, but so far I have never encountered a situation where a nipple (or sometimes even a run of conduit) jammed full has ever had heating issues.

The ONLY way I can see the install you pictured as having any issues with overheating of the conductors is if and only if EVERY circuit is loaded at over 80% AND every circuit has a continuous load like heaters or discharge lighting.

If it's not your work, your job, your inspection....... then it ain't your problem.
Yeah that too. :thumbsup: It actually looks to be very neat and workmanlike, and from the pics I see no reason to fail it.

EDIT: I now see the post that went in as I was typing this epic. I still would not worry about it, IMHO let the inspector make the call before you start to tear it apart and rework it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Oh it's very neat indeed. I am just going to let it ride. This inspector is just a major DB so I'm just going to try and distract him as much as possible.
 

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Oh it's very neat indeed. I am just going to let it ride. This inspector is just a major DB so I'm just going to try and distract him as much as possible.
Good plan. :thumbsup: I have used that trick before to my advantage.

Another I have used is to leave a quick fix minor violation to grab his attention and it usually worked well.

Many years ago I did a 200amp new service on my house in So Cal. It was a surface mount panel, so I had to sleeve some of the new circuits coming up from under the house in conduit (PVC). Inspector didn't want to sign off, claiming I couldn't run NM cable through conduit. My position is that it was for physical protection and thus allowed. (The conduits were 32" long, the restriction back then was 36" or less.) I even showed him the Code article that allowed it as installed.

After a polite chat with his boss he signed it off. :laughing:

That was the ONE job where I didn't leave a distraction...:whistling2:

The even funnier part of all this was that he had to go into my kitchen to inspect the new range receptacle...and saw but said nothing about the complete post-mix soda fountain system in plain sight. :rolleyes:
 

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Its not a big deal but its annoying that they would only install two little pipes for such a big panel.
 

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Further,

Rob (et all) , you need realize the benchmarks for captive heat in the NEC are generic , as well as quite akin to zero tolerance laws

If in fact those were 4" nipples that one could feel airflow through, the same fill deration would apply

And as to gutters, our 30 conductor seems to be (iirc) 200, up the street in Canada...

~CS~
 

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If the circuits aren't spliced in the wireway than you can use the exception in 310.15 A 2 and if the length of the circuit is at least 38', then you don't have to derate where it goes through the over-filled conduits.
 

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I bet when you grab those pipes with normal electricity usage they feel real warm.
 

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I think it looks great. Those look like 1" pipes to me. 26 #12 conductors are allowed according to Ch. 9 Table C.1, 1" EMT using THHN.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Going_Commando said:
If the circuits aren't spliced in the wireway than you can use the exception in 310.15 A 2 and if the length of the circuit is at least 38', then you don't have to derate where it goes through the over-filled conduits.
So in this case where all the wires are spliced up in the trough it's still not legit.
 
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