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"White tickets"

31K views 107 replies 32 participants last post by  Chrisibew440 
#1 ·
I'm a 14 year electrician with one year in the union. I am currently enrolled in our advanced class. A student in our class tonight has an issue with being called a white ticket. I've been through a lot in my life and name calling is real low on my list of personal issues. I personally do not take offense to this, I can run with the best of um when it comes to talkin sh$& but some can not. I'd love to here what some have to say. P.s this guy was all fired up about this and seeing him like this really made me kind of pissed.
 
#3 ·
No actually I'm kind of bent for the guy. His skin isn't tough yet.
It sucks that our statement says to " organize every electrician" and then you get these guys who come through all of the apprenticeship and they seem to be on a different page. Us non- union men have joined to strengthen our trade and way of life because we've seen a different side and the knowledge I bring to my union is everyone's knowledge in my union. I'm at a loss for words.
 
#19 · (Edited)
I got in through the back door, 95% of the members could have not given a durn, and most were helpful but the 5% were real jerk offs. They had the BA on the job several times, complaining I was working too hard, a rat and did not deserve to be there, several refused to take orders from me, one Jack Off (his name was Jack) refused to work with me and left the job.

During the first election I was a member the local president refused to shake my hand until he was informed I could vote. He had reached out to shake my hand and someone whispered that is the scab, loud enough for me to hear, he pulled his hand back, someone else told him I could vote he went for the hand shake, I turned my back and walked away.

I should add the BS was worth it in the long run and it only lasted for one job about 6 months as I was promoted up the ladder while the jack offs still labored in the ditches crying like b*tches.
 
#29 ·
I have much more faith in humans abilities to adapt and survive.


When cars and trucks came into widespread use the industries that handled horses surely predicted the end of good times. Instead a whole new economy developed.

When mechanical refrigeration came into use the ice production and delervery industries went away. Yet again other industries where created.
 
#31 ·
I understand that thought process and have considered it myself. I differ from you in that (like Brian said) robotics is something on a different scale.

I hope I am wrong in my concerns and you are correct in your prediction.
 
#34 ·
Brother Chris when I got in 1982 "white Paper" referred to those who came into the union through a system that allowed nonunion to work union on a white paper system (sort of like a trial system) I was no fan of this because I feel like it used and abused those with true intentions to become union. There was no clear rules to how long you would be white paper? Now the shake and bake (cited) I understand is about going through an abbreviated program usually 2 years. Our goals are to organize all the unorganized (or at least make the effort to offer) but NO ONE is born with a yellow ticket in their pocket so I also feel like we all are organized in one way or another. The unions offer so many opportunities it is almost unlimited to how far you can go with what is offered, hey some have even went on to become successful nonunion contractors. I have been around the animosity you post of, I would attribute to those who went through a long hard 5 year program jealously laden envy of those who get an easy ride (in their opinion) and as posted and the fact of some in violation of our contracts, and or union ways(examples, working through break or lunch, bringing too many tools, etc) Life is not easy and we must either work through our personal problems or fail no matter union or not!
 
#35 ·
Thanks Noah and to your input. I agree, us members who have gotten in on so-called "easy street" have quite a bit of heart for our union. We've been on the front lines in our industry and wanted to change how things are done or at least become a part of it. I know a lot of us look up to you old timers who have put your time in and really wished we would have made the same choice years ago so to you I thank you. Chris.
 
#46 ·
Ce/cw programs will be the downfall of the union. Further dividing the ibew. Unless you go through the apprenticeship....your a bought ticket joke in my book who took the easy way out and I blackball them every chance I get. I know a bunch of guys that worked non union and went through the whole program from year one. They also had kids and had to take big pay cuts. You have to make sacrifices for anything worth while bud. Gotta suck it up. every bought ticket bastard is just somebody who wanted something for nothing. Wants to make the pay scale but doesnt want to put in the school work. Either go through the apprenticeship or stay the hell out. These handy man hacks are rotting our trade from the inside out. I dont feel sorry for them one bit. And unless you EARNED your ticket, your opinion or argument is invalid to me so do it the right way and go through the program or if you dont mind running into people like me and you will, then just go ahead and buy your ticket
 
#47 ·
Unless you go through the apprenticeship....your a bought ticket joke in my book who took the easy way out and I blackball them every chance I get.
He blackballs them


every bought ticket bastard is just somebody who wanted something for nothing. Wants to make the pay scale but doesnt want to put in the school work. Either go through the apprenticeship or stay the hell out.
Every j-man in my state has done 8000 hours on the job training and at least 600 hours of school. How would you treat them?

These handy man hacks are rotting our trade from the inside out.
So anyone outside the union is a handyman hack.


I dont feel sorry for them one bit. And unless you EARNED your ticket, your opinion or argument is invalid to me so do it the right way and go through the program or if you dont mind running into people like me and you will, then just go ahead and buy your ticket
:clap::clap::clap:

Thank you for being one of the very few union guys on this forum who tells the truth about how many in the union treat people. thumbsup:


So eejack, Mr salter, you want to tell us how great it will be for j-men to vote to take a company union only to face guys like 9V?
 
#53 ·
Sorry im notsorry for the rant I posted but thats how I feel and it will never change. just imagine you work at an establishment for 20 years to get to the position that you have obtained through your hard work and knowledge just to have someone that has bought their way into the organization make the same pay and benefits it took you years to aquire. we live in a society now where no one wants to pay their dues and just wants the quick route to success. just because you've been doing electrical work for 15 years doesn't mean that you were taught to do it the right way. so don't feel entitled just because you have years in the trade working non union.....the standards are not the same. You will see more of a handyman electrician more than a electrical craftsman. Atleast in all my experiences. and also I am a new member I ran across this forum doing a google search
 
#59 · (Edited)
First of all I've worked for some damn good non union electricians and I've learned a lot from these men. It's people like you that will weaken the union and give a bad taste in new members mouths. Luckily for myself I could care less about what you think and your attitude will keep it like that. Although I'd rather find comradary in being a part of the same union as you. I thought the goal was to organize not discriminate. I don't doubt that you know your **** but so do I and a lot of good men like me. These white tickets are giving you more of a chance to be a man than I'm sure you realize. Give these guys a chance. You don't know everything and neither do they but together you can benefit. Hopefully if you continue with your ideology you treat these men with respect. As for the standards between non union and union, they are the same. There's contractors in my local that are verbally called rats amongst the brotherhood. The last contractor I worked for that was non union didn't pinch a penny or corner on anything. As a matter of fact I learned more from this man in 5 years than I did in my whole career.
 
#64 ·
Okay since the people that replied to my post have different opinions on this,please tell me how its right for a man to go through a apprenticeship for five years buying books ranging from 400 to 800 every year, spending time away from his family going to class at night and doing homework and studying for tests and finally tops out after 5 years and then handy man dan who does residential work with his uncle joe whos showed him how to rough in houses for 10 years goes and buys his ticket and now is "JW". So please explain to me how thats right. Maybe im just not seeing it here since im such an idiot...I'll wait for your answer.........
 
#73 ·
While I served no formal apprenticeship I did not magically learn what I know, I spent a lot of time picking up the knowledge I have, including how to run a business that employees union workers.

Additionally many open shop men study hard and go through an apprenticeship.

And lastly most apprentices I see after 3 years of finishing the program can't tell you how to figure the amperage of a 75 kva transformer, think ground rods are necessary for a system to operate and argue none code issues as code.

You are the unions problem not their answer.

ee- Men like this is what leave a bitter taste in open shop men and why many open shop men HATE the union. I have worked around hacks like this and typically they are all mouth and mostly hacks. They have no confidence in their abilities to do real electric work so run scared trashing open shop workers. Not saying 9V is like that but if the shoe fits......
 
#74 ·
You are confused BJ.

First off, we really don't care how skilled you may or may not think you are. It is immaterial. It is important to non union guys, but we really don't care because we really know it makes no difference. You don't get that, you never will get that, you cannot understand what is completely foreign to you and it is entirely your loss.

So you can do X. So what. The hall, the collective group of folks I work with for decades, has guys who can do X. We as a group can do anything, everything anyone else can do. We don't need you. Would it be nice for a well skilled individual to join the group - certainly, but only if the skills don't come with baggage,

Non union workers have skills...so what. They don't work any harder or better than union workers. That is a myth that non union workers tell themselves for whatever reason. Don't know why. Maybe because they have to run scared or because putting down their fellow workers is required to keep their jobs and they cannot stop doing it.

Who cares if a 3rd year apprentice cannot do a particular task - by third year he should know enough to not do it and ask someone who knows. What you don't seem to realize is I don't have to know how to do any particular task. I have an entire organization to reach out to. You non union guys have ET.

There are union hacks...so what. Their are hacks in every company, every trade, every business. If you somehow believe that non union shops are hack free and everyone gets along swimmingly I gotta let you in on a secret - even your sacred non union shops have hacks.

The reason why your imaginary non union worker 'hates' unions is because they spend all this time and energy building up their self image, being this great electrician, this uber worker, and the union don't care. The union is a social organization and if you don't fit, you don't fit.

Chrisibew440 - if you want to fit in, talk less about yourself as an individual and more about the group you work with. More we and less me. Spend the time to teach your apprentices some of those electrical skills you have. Be more selfless and next time someone gives you crap crack a big smile and ask them if they need a hug. You have to convince them that you are willing to stand up for them, because they will stand up for you.

I think that is enough troll food for one morning - hey all you anti-union schmucks...you are welcome. Enjoy.
 
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