Electrician Talk banner
1 - 20 of 22 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
611 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I was reading the instructions on a new range, it requires 2 phases 6 AWG, 1 neutral 8 AWG, 1 ground 8 AWG with the plug. The male plug is a 50 amp 4 prong plug. 120/240 volt.

Is there a reason they wanted an # 8 ground and # 6 circuit conductors since they have a 50 amp plug that # 8 phases and # 10 ground would work? 50 amp plug has to be on 50 amp breaker.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,226 Posts
You use a 50 amp receptacle on a 40Amp breaker as standard practice. Its one of the exceptions. Or at least in Canada and I thought the nec was the same
 

·
Administrator
Retired EC
Joined
·
23,567 Posts
The nec allows a 9 thru 16 kw range to be wired for 40 amps however the specs can change that. I don't understand the reasoning for a #8 ground. What brand range is this?
 

·
Bilge Rat
motors and controls.........
Joined
·
8,411 Posts
It's because the instructions were written by idiot lawyers trying to justify their huge paychecks and obscene bonuses rather than actual engineers.

This way, if the range causes a fire, they can say 'we went over and above both code and standard practices so we cannot be held responsible for anything.

What size wire did they use internally? Bet it's not 6s and 8s..........
 

·
Registered
Electrical contractor 37 years. Electrical inspector 2 years
Joined
·
1,698 Posts
On a kitchen remodel several years ago I ran an 8/3 with ground to a cooktop unit. They wound up getting an induction cooktop that required in the instruction to be on a #6 wire. The 8/3 was ran months before and I never read all the fine print in the book. I was not told what type of cooktop at the start. I never heard of an induction top before this job. A year later it burns out and they blamed the wire being too small. It was a 6.9 kw unit.
 

·
Super Moderator
Elechicken!
Joined
·
3,842 Posts
On a kitchen remodel several years ago I ran an 8/3 with ground to a cooktop unit. They wound up getting an induction cooktop that required in the instruction to be on a #6 wire. The 8/3 was ran months before and I never read all the fine print in the book. I was not told what type of cooktop at the start. I never heard of an induction top before this job. A year later it burns out and they blamed the wire being too small. It was a 6.9 kw unit.
This seems to be a common thing these days, the cooktop stops working so they buy a newer model and low and behold it needs a circuit twice as big for the same style of cooktop. It's almost to the point where I'd run a 1" conduit to the kitchen for future appliance upgrades...
 

·
Registered
retired electrician but occasionally take on small residential projects
Joined
·
56 Posts
What appliance manufacturer was this? With standard house wiring using 8/4 it seems like a manufacturer could rule themselves out. In my experience I have found companies outsourcing their documentation to India, Taiwan, etc. who often get things wrong. Calling the manufacturer usually clears this up. I know this sounds dumb but is is a fact.
 

·
Registered
Electrical contractor 37 years. Electrical inspector 2 years
Joined
·
1,698 Posts
What appliance manufacturer was this? With standard house wiring using 8/4 it seems like a manufacturer could rule themselves out. In my experience I have found companies outsourcing their documentation to India, Taiwan, etc. who often get things wrong. Calling the manufacturer usually clears this up. I know this sounds dumb but is is a fact.
You mentioned outsourcing the documents. This makes sense because sometimes when I do read the instructions they are written awkward at times. I will admit I do not have the best reading comprehension but I try to understand what is being said. When the term "earth" is used as "ground" then I question.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,054 Posts
You mentioned outsourcing the documents. This makes sense because sometimes when I do read the instructions they are written awkward at times. I will admit I do not have the best reading comprehension but I try to understand what is being said. When the term "earth" is used as "ground" then I question.
I have the same problem with Chinglish.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Kevin

·
Registered
Maintenance electrician and installer.
Joined
·
50 Posts
Is there a chance it could be wired on to a larger circuit? Secondly this kind of supposes that this circuit might be in pipe. Whoops, see you said it came plug and cord.
 

·
Dope-less Hope Fiend
electrician
Joined
·
713 Posts
On a kitchen remodel several years ago I ran an 8/3 with ground to a cooktop unit. They wound up getting an induction cooktop that required in the instruction to be on a #6 wire. The 8/3 was ran months before and I never read all the fine print in the book. I was not told what type of cooktop at the start. I never heard of an induction top before this job. A year later it burns out and they blamed the wire being too small. It was a 6.9 kw unit.
6.9 KW on a 220 volt circuit should draw about 32 amps. 8/3 would be large enough. I highly doubt the wire size caused the cooktop to burn out.
 

·
Bilge Rat
motors and controls.........
Joined
·
8,411 Posts
6.9 KW on a 220 volt circuit should draw about 32 amps. 8/3 would be large enough. I highly doubt the wire size caused the cooktop to burn out.
I thought the same thing..........sounds like the product was poorly designed and/or poorly made and the manufacturer was looking to blame someone..........
 

·
Registered
Residential, lite comm., Industrial
Joined
·
194 Posts
It's because the instructions were written by idiot lawyers trying to justify their huge paychecks and obscene bonuses rather than actual engineers.

This way, if the range causes a fire, they can say 'we went over and above both code and standard practices so we cannot be held responsible for anything.

What size wire did they use internally? Bet it's not 6s and 8s..........
You cannot judge bye the internal wiring AWG. That wire has special hi-temp insulation which allows it a greater ampacity, also it only goes to one element, not the whole stove
 

·
Registered
Residential, lite comm., Industrial
Joined
·
194 Posts
I was reading the instructions on a new range, it requires 2 phases 6 AWG, 1 neutral 8 AWG, 1 ground 8 AWG with the plug. The male plug is a 50 amp 4 prong plug. 120/240 volt.

Is there a reason they wanted an # 8 ground and # 6 circuit conductors since they have a 50 amp plug that # 8 phases and # 10 ground would work? 50 amp plug has to be on 50 amp breaker.
In a residence, the feed to the receptacle would commonly be romex. #8 romex is rated for 40 amps; #8 THHN is rated for 50 amps
 

·
Registered
Low Voltage, Multi-Family Residential Electrical Construction, Fire Alarm and Life Safety
Joined
·
113 Posts
It's because the instructions were written by idiot lawyers trying to justify their huge paychecks and obscene bonuses rather than actual engineers.This way, if the range causes a fire, they can say 'we went over and above both code and standard practices so we cannot be held responsible for anything.
Yep. We have to keep in mind that some of the minimum test-taking principles that we've learned doesn't necessarily make everyone comfortable simply because it's code compliant. e.g. motors with built in overload protection may allow a wire smaller than #10 on 30A circuit. But to keep everyone happy, the contractor may still run #10 to cover his bases so that he doesn't have to explain why he has #12 or #14 on a 30A circuit.
 
1 - 20 of 22 Posts
Top