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I have. She wants me to move on. Yes I will be exposed to a larger scope of the trade at the new place.


I make 20.75 in West Michigan. Offer was for 25, counter for 25.5.
You’re not joking? I was makin 25 nonunio in NYC in 1987
 

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Discussion Starter · #22 ·
Make a pro and con list. Benefits are worth money. Remember that.
I was one to move on quite easily and a couple times it was not my decision. I can truthfully say every time I moved on, I got a better job and made more money.
Look at your list and I bet that will give you the correct answer. The answer that makes the most sense.
Good luck and keep us posted as to your decision.
Once I did the Pro Con list it became obvious that leaving was the better option. I put in my notice today that my last day will be Friday.

Not mentioned yet is job security. With times being like they are is one of the employers more stable than the other? Are you likely to get laid off after a big ptoject completion? Consider the stability just as important as the pay.
My current one is pretty stable I'd say because when we get slow we are loaned out to friendly companies. I spent half the winter doing fire alarm for a different company but still got 38+ hours every week. The new company has a construction side that they are short handed for if I really needed the work.
This is huge, any move is going to trigger you to pay for health insurance.
I hope you younger guys get this insurance problem worked out in the US. It really sucks, bad. Its unfair and completely rotten.
I don't believe you are going to be any better off unless your company pays for your H&W.
That $5 might hurt you
My wife recently started her bookkeeping and tax prep business, and we are considering getting a plan through her company if the plan at my new company is ****. It's about $7 a week for the most coverage option and $20 copays but the hr guy didn't know the deductible off the top of his head. At my current company it's 36 a week and the deductible is $3600 with $50 copays

I do think healthcare should no longer be tied to a job, but my experience at the VA tells me the federal government can't do it. Expanded Medicaid would help a lot of people and I'd gladly give up that donated ukraine money to help out families making under 50k a year with Healthcare
 

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I was working for a state agency as an electrician. Out of the blue a job offer showed up for an MFG. 1/3 more than I was making. I wrote the letter and handed it to my boss (who was my best friend) We went to the director of crafts and he read the letter gave me some BS about being a public servant and how good it made me feel. I said I would stay for 10%. He made a counter offer of 5%. I laughed my boss looked at him and said do not piss him off give him 10%.
Dropped the offer to 3%. I walked.

Take the money after you review everything in your life with your wife.
One thing about a state job, garenteed pension. In the private sector your 401 is here today and could be gone tomorrow. Union pensions could be mismanaged but a government pension in most states are backed up by taxes.
 

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I have. She wants me to move on. Yes I will be exposed to a larger scope of the trade at the new place.


I make 20.75 in West Michigan. Offer was for 25, counter for 25.5.
So the current company could have paid you more this whole time but didn’t?? Until you got a new opportunity and now they want to pay more? Go with the new place. Companies need to realize that operating like that is theft
 

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There is a saying, better to dance with the devil you know rather then the devil you don't know.
How old are you and how long have you worked as an electrician? You are asking a question on this forum where you will get many different answers. Some from union workers who feel every boss or company owner lives to make money off the backs of the worker. Other responses from business owners who are barely hanging on. Often the workers are making more money than the guy taking all the risks. Several weeks back my helper took home more money than I did. It was very hot out and we took off mid-day. He had to get paid for the day but I didn't. A one day job now took two plus days.. I can't go back and ask for more money on a fixed price job because it took longer because of the heat.
Just be careful with a large shop, 200 people. You will be expected to produce because of the larger overhead and internal competition.
Over 45 years in business I sometimes wonder why young people jump from job to job. But that is why I am self employed. I would be one of those jumping around.
 

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There is a saying, better to dance with the devil you know rather then the devil you don't know.
How old are you and how long have you worked as an electrician? You are asking a question on this forum where you will get many different answers. Some from union workers who feel every boss or company owner lives to make money off the backs of the worker. Other responses from business owners who are barely hanging on. Often the workers are making more money than the guy taking all the risks. Several weeks back my helper took home more money than I did. It was very hot out and we took off mid-day. He had to get paid for the day but I didn't. A one day job now took two plus days.. I can't go back and ask for more money on a fixed price job because it took longer because of the heat.
Just be careful with a large shop, 200 people. You will be expected to produce because of the larger overhead and internal competition.
Over 45 years in business I sometimes wonder why young people jump from job to job. But that is why I am self employed. I would be one of those jumping around.
Your way nicer than any boss I've ever had. I've done several stints in carpentry etc. If it rains and you can't work, guess your working Saturday to make up the hours. If the boss can't deal with the stress of running the job that day and sends you home, you don't get paid.
 

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Over 45 years in business I sometimes wonder why young people jump from job to job.
I think this is due to the your "just a name and number" anymore for most employers.
I see it when they hire a new person at the same pay as someone who has been there for years climbing the ladder. The person that has been there for years has been getting small raises, the new person is offered what the other person makes with no regard for the time and effort put in by the person that has been there and knows the job already. So that person jumps ship to move on.
Good owners that care are getting harder to come by.
 

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I think this is due to the your "just a name and number" anymore for most employers.
I see it when they hire a new person at the same pay as someone who has been there for years climbing the ladder. The person that has been there for years has been getting small raises, the new person is offered what the other person makes with no regard for the time and effort put in by the person that has been there and knows the job already. So that person jumps ship to move on.
Good owners that care are getting harder to come by.
You put value on the fact that someone has been somewhere for years becomes more valuable than somebody who just joined up with the company? Is it a capable company qualified journeyman electrician the same no matter where you go pretty much give or take??? Your problem here cowboy as you’re using the same game playing techniques all nonunion contractors use : you will use and make up or pull out of your ass any freaking excuse you can to not pay somebody good money regardless of how ridiculous it sounds.

A journeyman electrician is a journeyman electrician sure summer better at pipe summer better at pulling cable summer better at fishing walls summer better at setting fixtures that’s just human nature but for you to have the goal in the audacity to actually tack a monetary value onto people based on what your opinion is gives you this ultimate God complex I think you really get off on a little too much.

What do you think that the small raises people get from year to year to year working for a place or do to reward them for their tenure? Or because they’re getting more familiar with where they work or the company they’re in? They’re not you dope they’re called cost-of-living increases, and everybody gets them what do you expect everybody to start at five bucks an hour in 2022 like you did back in the 70s? You expect someone who’s been in the industry for 15 years who decides to change jobs at the new shop they have to start at the bottom of the pay scale? You realize that when most shops are looking for help they typically hire somebody that’s getting paid more than most of the people work there ? This is one of the reason why all of the nonunion scam contractors tell all their employees not to discuss their wages with others. You know and I know it so why don’t you stop blowing smoke?

If there’s one thing that’s true about so many electricians, too many electricians… If you are so goddamn full of yourself I’d like to buy you for what you’re worth – and sell you for what you think you’re worth I’d be a rich man but then again I ready I’m a rich man ha ha Ha.
 

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I started my career for $3.25 an hour with 3D electric company in Fort Myers Fla in 1976. J-man pay was around 5 and it seemed like I better get the hell out of Florida or else I was doomed to be poor. So I did.
 

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By the way, so not to disparage the Ducheck family, it was fun working there, and they were about the same as everybody else in the area scale wise. They were good people.....
 
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You put value on the fact that someone has been somewhere for years becomes more valuable than somebody who just joined up with the company? Is it a capable company qualified journeyman electrician the same no matter where you go pretty much give or take??? Your problem here cowboy as you’re using the same game playing techniques all nonunion contractors use : you will use and make up or pull out of your ass any freaking excuse you can to not pay somebody good money regardless of how ridiculous it sounds.
You got the wrong idea, I worked my ass off to get my guys 20+ % more pay this year, not under pay them

A journeyman electrician is a journeyman electrician sure summer better at pipe summer better at pulling cable summer better at fishing walls summer better at setting fixtures that’s just human nature but for you to have the goal in the audacity to actually tack a monetary value onto people based on what your opinion is gives you this ultimate God complex I think you really get off on a little too much.
We come from different fields. In construction I agree that a JW should be able to do the work as well as the next guy.
But in maintenance and troubleshooting skills learned about the current plant are priceless. I just hired a JW guy at 100Kthat don't know the system and will take years to learn it all. should he get what the guy who has been here years and can fix anything does.


What do you think that the small raises people get from year to year to year working for a place or do to reward them for their tenure? Or because they’re getting more familiar with where they work or the company they’re in? They’re not you dope they’re called cost-of-living increases, and everybody gets them what do you expect everybody to start at five bucks an hour in 2022 like you did back in the 70s? You expect someone who’s been in the industry for 15 years who decides to change jobs at the new shop they have to start at the bottom of the pay scale? You realize that when most shops are looking for help they typically hire somebody that’s getting paid more than most of the people work there ? This is one of the reason why all of the nonunion scam contractors tell all their employees not to discuss their wages with others. You know and I know it so why don’t you stop blowing smoke?
This has nothing to do with unions or non union. I am a firm believer in pay for skills not title.

If there’s one thing that’s true about so many electricians, too many electricians… If you are so goddamn full of yourself I’d like to buy you for what you’re worth – and sell you for what you think you’re worth I’d be a rich man but then again I ready I’m a rich man ha ha Ha.
You got it all wrong. Both as a business owner and boss I think of the guys first.
As a business owner I threw a xmas party for my workers. Even after I shut down I still threw the party and most of the former employees came for 8 year that was how well I took care of my people.
 

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How is your paycheck in comparison to the cost of living in your area? That’s the real question.

Nobody cares what someone else makes 3 states away, what matters is how far does your paycheck go in your area?

I haven’t chased money as much as other guys have. To me what’s been important for a company that I wanted to work at was (1) reliability that I would have work every week (2) insurance, vacation, vehicle, ect. (3) a wage that was enough to take care of all the bills, feed my family and not have us living paycheck to paycheck.

Sit down and figure out what the most important for you.

A side note is - loyalty doesn’t play out as well as you might think it would in this business. Ive been loyal to companies where the boss didn’t even know my name. Ive also worked at companies where if you were a hard worker and a team player, they would take care of you. This usually ends up being the manager above you, not the company itself.
 

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I started my career for $3.25 an hour with 3D electric company in Fort Myers Fla in 1976. J-man pay was around 5 and it seemed like I better get the hell out of Florida or else I was doomed to be poor. So I did.
I started at 25 cents per hour and a Hershey bar after lunch. But that is when I had to walk 5 miles uphill each way to school. In the snow. Barefoot.

I hope you realize I am being facetious.
 

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I wouldn’t take the deal and stay.

1. It’s an appeasement not even close.
2. If you take the deal this is what happens. You get the service job but they cut your hours. You get your $0.50 but next year when they give out raises “you already got yours” and you get passed over. Too bad, so sad.

What they are saying is they’re not budging. So if you want it, no 2 weeks. Walk out the door and never, ever look back.

And nobody EVER works 8-5 days only 40 hour weeks in any service function. If they do, you will be out of a job in six months when they close the doors. That or they contracted out maintenance and your job is head clipboard carrier. Either they are full of crap or you will be looking for another job in a couple months.

My advice: the market is good. Find another bidder.
 

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I think this is due to the your "just a name and number" anymore for most employers.
I see it when they hire a new person at the same pay as someone who has been there for years climbing the ladder. The person that has been there for years has been getting small raises, the new person is offered what the other person makes with no regard for the time and effort put in by the person that has been there and knows the job already. So that person jumps ship to move on.
Good owners that care are getting harder to come by.
It's like you work for a city or something. :LOL:
We always joke that we are going to quit once a year and get rehired so we can get a raise.
 

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Work is still plentiful. There is a shortage of labor. Inflation is high and the cost of living and materials seem to continue to drive up prices. I as an owner (and need to get on top of this) can raise my rates at will. Employees don't have the same amount of control. They also rely upon management to be on top of this or the company goes under. If you aren't getting high wages (relative to other parts of the country) in NYC at any given time, you aren't going to be able to survive. This goes for California and Seattle for instance.
 

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Discussion Starter · #37 ·
There is a saying, better to dance with the devil you know rather then the devil you don't know.
How old are you and how long have you worked as an electrician? You are asking a question on this forum where you will get many different answers. Some from union workers who feel every boss or company owner lives to make money off the backs of the worker. Other responses from business owners who are barely hanging on. Often the workers are making more money than the guy taking all the risks. Several weeks back my helper took home more money than I did. It was very hot out and we took off mid-day. He had to get paid for the day but I didn't. A one day job now took two plus days.. I can't go back and ask for more money on a fixed price job because it took longer because of the heat.
Just be careful with a large shop, 200 people. You will be expected to produce because of the larger overhead and internal competition.
Over 45 years in business I sometimes wonder why young people jump from job to job. But that is why I am self employed. I would be one of those jumping around.
I am 27 and have been in the trade for 3 years. I was mainly unhappy with my last 2 raises, so I got the new offer in case my boss told me to pound sand when I asked for a better raise. I only interviewed at places I would be really interested in working for. Just so happened that I want to try out service and a service position was available. I told the hr guy I made what I wish I made so it would be compelling enough to leave a place where I really liked the guys. I am looking to go solo as soon as I get the required licenses mainly for freedom and more flexibility with my kids while they're young. Hopping jobs doesn't really bother me because of this.
How is your paycheck in comparison to the cost of living in your area? That’s the real question.

Nobody cares what someone else makes 3 states away, what matters is how far does your paycheck go in your area?

I haven’t chased money as much as other guys have. To me what’s been important for a company that I wanted to work at was (1) reliability that I would have work every week (2) insurance, vacation, vehicle, ect. (3) a wage that was enough to take care of all the bills, feed my family and not have us living paycheck to paycheck.

Sit down and figure out what the most important for you.

A side note is - loyalty doesn’t play out as well as you might think it would in this business. Ive been loyal to companies where the boss didn’t even know my name. Ive also worked at companies where if you were a hard worker and a team player, they would take care of you. This usually ends up being the manager above you, not the company itself.
My total income is a little jacked up from using the GI bill to supplement income. So my check went a little farther 6 months ago when the VA paid more for me being an apprentice. They seemed to think I should have gotten a bigger raise this last time and cut the benefit down. So while I went from 18.75 to 20.75, my total income went down about $400 a month. I've pulled from my savings for the last few months and now we are just out of money.
2. If you take the deal this is what happens. You get the service job but they cut your hours. You get your $0.50 but next year when they give out raises “you already got yours” and you get passed over. Too bad, so sad.
That was one of my main fears about staying.
 

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My total income is a little jacked up from using the GI bill to supplement income. So my check went a little farther 6 months ago when the VA paid more for me being an apprentice. They seemed to think I should have gotten a bigger raise this last time and cut the benefit down. So while I went from 18.75 to 20.75, my total income went down about $400 a month. I've pulled from my savings for the last few months and now we are just out of money.
First of all, thank you for your service.

Second, this was the answer I was looking for. If I were in your shoes, I’d start looking for another job. At 3yrs experience you might be able to negotiate a position with a little more responsibility than you have now. That usually means more pay.

God bless dude. We all had to make it off baloney sandwiches and cheap cigarettes for a couple years. Don’t worry it gets better. This trade pays very well after the 5-7yr mark.

I also supplemented my paycheck for the first 2 years in the trade with the GI bill. If it weren’t for that, I might’ve had to do something else.
 

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Discussion Starter · #39 ·
First of all, thank you for your service.

Second, this was the answer I was looking for. If I were in your shoes, I’d start looking for another job. At 3yrs experience you might be able to negotiate a position with a little more responsibility than you have now. That usually means more pay.

God bless dude. We all had to make it off baloney sandwiches and cheap cigarettes for a couple years. Don’t worry it gets better. This trade pays very well after the 5-7yr mark.

I also supplemented my paycheck for the first 2 years in the trade with the GI bill. If it weren’t for that, I might’ve had to do something else.
Thanks, man. You too. It's been worth it for me, but wasn't for many of my friends.

I did end up going with the new job for a 4.75 total raise and I start Monday doing commercial and light industrial service and commercial small projects, for the couple of guys that seemed confused a few posts ago.
 

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I wouldn’t take the deal and stay.

1. It’s an appeasement not even close.
2. If you take the deal this is what happens. You get the service job but they cut your hours. You get your $0.50 but next year when they give out raises “you already got yours” and you get passed over. Too bad, so sad.

What they are saying is they’re not budging. So if you want it, no 2 weeks. Walk out the door and never, ever look back.

And nobody EVER works 8-5 days only 40 hour weeks in any service function. If they do, you will be out of a job in six months when they close the doors. That or they contracted out maintenance and your job is head clipboard carrier. Either they are full of crap or you will be looking for another job in a couple months.

My advice: the market is good. Find another bidder.
Bottom line here is: contractors are in this game to make $$$. Chiseling .50 or more from each wage worker adds up, and they know people talk. So they have to jip everyone.
Since COVID +!inflation + supply chain problems their pricing has reflected all of it… and keeping employees demands for their come uppance is just another profit center. A 20% wage increase to prevent you from beating feet just means they’ve known how much they’ve been underpaying you for quite a while and we’re likely waiting for you to ask for it, But it was more profitable for them to keep their mouth shut and not offer it when that would’ve been the right thing to do.

So if you do take the offer… I would demand some backpay to (or a retention bonus call it.)
 
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