Wow, that installer was even lazier than I am!

 

Lazy is OK if not bringing the neutrals along is permitted. Have an insight as to whether it is OK lazy or not?

 

I am not sure. Forget what article it is, but there is something that says you have to have both the neutral and hot in the same enclosure entrance if it's metal or else you have to cut vent holes or some such nonsense. I'm sitting on the throne right now and I'll be here for a while so someone else will probably help.

 

Violations of 300.3(B) and 408.41.

 

Where is the 408.41 violation?

 

Is this allowed?

Nope.

300.3 Conductors.

(B) Conductors of the Same Circuit. All conductors of
the same circuit and, where used, the grounded conductor
and all equipment grounding conductors and bonding conductors
shall be contained within the same raceway, auxiliary
gutter, cable tray, cablebus assembly, trench, cable, or
cord, unless otherwise permitted in accordance with
300.3(B)(1) through (B)(4).

 

We have a similar rule to 300.3 up here in the north. basically, if putting a
clamp meter around a group wires would result in a current being indicated,
that group of conductors shouldn't pass through anything which current will
be induced into, such as an EMT conduit or metal connector or locknut, or...
you get the idea.
Neatly wired though.:thumbup:
P&L

 

Thanks to everyone. I think I understand now.

 

There is an exception in the NEC for INDUSTRIAL panel boards -- that allows the neutral bar to stay in a gutter above the narrow body of the panel board.

This specific design permitted said panels to nestle within the channel of major I beam verticals.

ONLY said listed panel boards are permitted this exemption.

( BTW the gutter above is connected to the panel board by a vertical gutter -- Tee style -- such that the hot feeders and the returning branch hots are passing right by each other. Hence, there is no Ohmic heating// unbalanced flux. )

It's the ONLY exception I know of.

Since this is a residence, it's against the Code... even though this fella followed in the spirit of the industrial scheme.

( Smells like an industrial electrician whipped this together. )

Think of the follow on confusion as the DIYer // handy man can't begin to figure out what's up.

 

I don't see all of those provisions necessary:

300.3(B)(4) Enclosures. Where an auxiliary gutter runs between a
column-width panelboard and a pull box, and the pull box
includes neutral terminations, the neutral conductors of circuits
supplied from the panelboard shall be permitted to
originate in the pull box.

 

Work on it.

It'll come to you.

 

Are you serious? :laughing:

 

telsa, it seems like very few people actually read your posts here. Myself and one other gentleman did, we both found that it was very inaccurate. I even posted the code article showing that you were wrong on multiple accounts, but in a polite way.

Since then, all you have done is attacked myself and the other gentleman.

What you posted is wrong, the code I posted is straight from the NEC and clearly shows why. What more needs to be said?

 

Check out this thread.

www.electriciantalk.com/f30/what-can-cause-all-lights-circuit-fry-119010/

 

As for the OP's situation, I've done the very same thing. It may be a code violation but I don't care. It's no different than a switch loop, electrically speaking. As for it confusing DIYers or handy-hacks - :laughing::laughing::laughing:

 

Thanks for the link, that was awesome :laughing:

So have you taken college level quantum physics???

:thumbup:

"It's no different than a switch loop, electrically speaking."

In a switch loop you don't need the neutral because the current is flowing back on the other leg of the loop (as it normally would with a neutral) and therefore canceling out whatever effect heats the metal.

I did it installing a generator subpanel at my house.

Those are switch loops so what I said above applies. You won't have the heating in that situation either.

 

As for the OP's situation, I've done the very same thing. It may be a code violation but I don't care. It's no different than a switch loop, electrically speaking. As for it confusing DIYers or handy-hacks - :laughing::laughing::laughing:

I did it installing a generator subpanel at my house.

 

I wonder if Telsa will come back to admit he was wrong.

 

Have you ever came back an admitted you were wrong? Just a question. Most people will not admit it!


Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk

 

Have you ever came back an admitted you were wrong? Just a question. Most people will not admit it! Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk

I thought I was wrong once... But I was wrong.

 

Why not .. It's late ...

I would be nice to see the little boys following Jersy around, actually say something for themselves

Night Nancy

 

I believe that the neutral is to originate in the same panel that the circuit originates. The article explaining slots being cut crossways on panel knockout is for the magnetic effect on ferrous pipe runs where parallel conductors of one phase are run in one conduit. Usually only done on a humongous service where it makes it easier to keep parallel wires the same identical length. I can also say I have seen factory wired panels for residential generator backed circûits where they have you splice in the original panel.i know most people don't splice the neutral as well. Fast and dirty they make these generator installs. I believe that it's a violation as well. The magnetic effect is only an issue when you have one phase in one pipe. Kind of like a transformer winding ratio on the conduit.

 

Funny, I have run into this type of installation on several occasions, and I don't think the thought of whether it was code or not ever crossed my mind. I just thought it was a different way to skin the cat.

Thanks to Don for showing up with the actual code article. Otherwise I would have just continued on like always.