Is it a corner grounded delta system?

 

I don't think it is. He said all legs are 120v to ground.

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:stupid::stupid::stupid::stupid::stupid::stupid:


Oh my god, you Fùcking moron! Are you even an electrician? You definitely are not Chicken Steve. The chicken man is an idiot and a fùcking dolt and a communist, but he definitely knows more than this about electricity.




@farmantenna , Ignore this moron!

You said there were 2 services on the building. I've run into in on some commercial/industrial buildings. At some point in the building's life, they added some 3 phase loads. Left the existing 120/240 1ph service and added a 3 phase open delta service.

At that point there were only 2 transformers feeding this service on the pole. It was either at the pole ungrounded straight 240 or corner grounded 240 and poor quality 240 between phase and ground. Corner grounding is just for safety, not for current carrying purposes.

The metering for open delta is only 2 wires, because there are no phase to ground loads and you are always drawing power from 2 legs and both transformers anyways.

I bet what really is happening here is building used to have an open delta service for the above reasons. One of the neighboring buildings needed a 3 phase wye service from the same pole. So the power company added a 3rd transformer and wired them all together wye. Your service never got changed. You are reading 208v between phases.

The 120v you are reading is traveling through the grounds of the building. Most liklely to a point where both services are grounded to the same metal. The current is traveling back through the neutral of the single phase service and to the poles where the neutrals and grounds of both services are tied together at the pole with the 3 cans on it

 

@farmantenna
get with the POCO & verify what it is. Then you can go from there.

 

It sounds like a Wye service that for some reason doesn't have a neutral coming to the building from the pole.

Is it an overhead service? What is the incoming cable? Triplex? Quadplex?

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@farmantenna, can you post a picture or two or three of the transformers on the pole?

 

@farmantenna, can you post a picture or two or three of the transformers on the pole?

and a close up of the wiring.

 

....

this board server / software is all jacked up

 

If it’s truly ungrounded the first ground fault makes it corner grounded but no trip which is what OP is describing. Ungrounded systems are still bonded and grounded just no neutral.

The second ground can also be harmless if create a line-ground-line fault.

 

what hell is happening? hahaha

I'll post photos Monday while I'm there. At some point in history they wanted 3 Phase for RTUs and fans but I have never seen 3 wire 3 phase 208v system like this. There are 3 transformers on the pole just for this building and the single phase comes from the 120/240 lower wires

 

what hell is happening? hahaha

I apologize for Travis calling you a DIYer and destroying your thread. He is doing it to every thread so don't feel bad.

Once you post the pictures we can hopefully get this back on topic.

 

Please stop the bickering-- you two need to get a room somewhere... geez.....

 

"you two"???




Apparently Dennis and the other guy will allow Travis to spread complete electrical misinformation for the handful of posts he makes that are actually about electricity, because the other 95% of his posts are liberal garbage that they slurp up.

 

Two hots and a bare with 120 to ground and 208 between the hots is two phases of a three phase system, so single phase.

 

You guys are all mean. I dont think you understood the stero analogy correctly.

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Lordy... what a screwed up thread.

 

@farmantenna service is definitely currently fed Wye. He said he got 208 from all 3 phases and 120 to ground from all 3. That rules out any corner or center grounded delta.

 

@farmantenna service is definitely currently fed Wye. He said he got 208 from all 3 phases and 120 to ground from all 3. That rules out any corner or center grounded delta.

Something still isn't right. It should also have a neutral that is at least sized for fault current.

 

Updated photos

it is difficult to see the transformer connections in the photo and in person but looks like a wire from each is connected together with a wire going to the ground of the lower set of single phase run. also sloppy weird connections up there.

 

it is difficult to see the transformer connections in the photo and in person but looks like a wire from each is connected together with a wire going to the ground of the lower set of single phase run. also sloppy weird connections up there.

Looks like exactly what I guessed. That was an open delta service. It is now fed from a wye transformer configuration. Looks like those transformers feeds someplace off to the right as well.
With the service in it's current configuration, you should not power any 120v loads from the 3 phase service. That service has no neutral. Your meter says it will work, but it is reading through ground to the single phase 120/240 service and out through the neutral of that service. Sooner or later, you would overload it or have problems with crusty old ground connections.

 

I would be getting in contact with the power co. ASAP to get that corrected.

Looks like 120/208Y to me. Time for a service change.

 

Nothing that scares me on that service. If the OP wants to sell a 400a 3-phase service upgrade, then sell away. The building probably has 2 HVAC units and a hood fan that needs 3 phase. Everything else is single phase. Plenty of capacity there for that.

 

wow...I love coming in to these threads a day late.

It's like Steve and Cletus had a love child.:vs_OMG:

 

They already did. They named him "JoeSparky" for some reason.

 

You sure that's 3 phase. That look line a single phase service. The pan looks like a 5 jaw bypass meter pan for a single phase meter. Here on LI they use 5 jaw meter pans so you could not turn the meter over and have it spin backwards to steal electric. Just because there are 3 transformers on the pole doesn't mean that service is connected to all 3 phases (I can't tell from the pic)


https://www.walterswholesale.com/mi...avy-duty-ringless-meter-socket-with-lever-bypass-5-jaw-1-position-200-amp-59831

 

. 208v between all legs 3p MB 8 3-p CBs RTUs and fans.

I hear yeah. That's why I posted this. It looks like single phase meter! The meter is removed and that center terminal is energized and at MB. I wanted to move the panel and it's still live!

 

Some less scrupulous folks then myself :whistling2: would power every 120v load in the building off of the B phase of the 3 phase service :surprise:

 

This thread is gayer than Richard Simmons eating a custard donut at an Nsync concert.

 

And you're as dumb as some thing that is doing a thing that is also dumb at a place.

 

update

I started this. I created a ground fault and there was definitely a flow of current! But only because it's going through the adjacent single phase ground/neutral. The ground rods for these services are 8 inches apart

 

I started this. I created a ground fault and there was definitely a flow of current! But only because it's going through the adjacent single phase ground/neutral. The ground rods for these services are 8 inches apart

Too close.

Need to be one rod length apart or they start to act like just one rod. So typically eight feet apart, not 8 inches.