Duuuuuuuuuuuude.

You're crazy to pass up a small diesel. That thing will make you money and it can haul more weight around and not cry about it.

Gasoline sucks bawlz.

 

Why wouldn't you go diesel? Like Fast said, they got gobs of low end torque, and are overall more efficient

I don't understand this diesel thing. I never had one.

If diesel is so much better, why are the majority of vans and trucks gasoline? Companies put a lot of thought into their fleets of vehicles. If diesel was better in the long run (even if more expensive up front), why aren't all trucks and vans diesel?

 

It's made by Fiat but they are going to assemble the North American version at the Chrysler truck plant in Mexico. :nerd:

 

Why wouldn't you go diesel? Like Fast said, they got gobs of low end torque, and are overall more efficient

 

There is a choice of two engines, one of which is Chrysler’s Pentastar 3.6-liter V-6 rated for 280 horsepower and 258 lb-ft of torque. The other is taken from the Fiat side of the equation, a turbocharged 3.0-liter EcoDiesel four-cylinder with 174 horsepower and 295 lb-ft of torque. Transmissions are a six-speed automatic—standard with the V-6—or a six-speed automated manual with the diesel. Regardless of engine or transmission choice, power is routed to the front wheels.
At the front is a strut-type suspension, while the back has a beam axle with a Hotchkiss leaf-spring system. Twin-tube shocks are all around and there are five suspension levels to allow for various van configurations. Also included in the ProMaster package is electronic stability control and disc brakes with Brembo dual-piston calipers reside on each corner.
Ram claims a payload capacity of up to 5145 pounds and a gross combined weight rating of 11,500 pounds with the V-6 and 12,500 pounds if you opt for the diesel. Ram also asserts that the ProMaster rates best in class for fuel economy, cargo capacity, ceiling height, step-in height, and low load floor.​

Why do all the large trucks and semis run on diesel? It's more efficient for hauling and very reliable.

As MTW said I suspect regulations play a huge part as to why diesel isn't more common in the US. Again though, that's subject to change as GM is considering putting out some mid size trucks with diesel engines.

Plus, without a decent turbocharger, diesels tend to be slower. (notice the difference in HP/TQ in the engines above)

EDIT: Here's a link suggesting diesel sales are trending up in the US for passenger vehicles. http://www.azcentral.com/business/c...consumer/free/20130826why-diesels-are-gaining-momentum-in-dieselhostile-us.html

 

Why do all the large trucks and semis run on diesel? It's more efficient for hauling and very reliable.

Understandable. It works well for large trucks, just about all of them are diesel.

But the vast majority of vans and pickups that I see on the road are gasoline. This includes most of the fleet vehicles.

As MTW said I suspect regulations play a huge part as to why diesel isn't more common in the US. Again though, that's subject to change as GM is considering putting out some mid size trucks with diesel engines.

Plus, without a decent turbocharger, diesels tend to be slower. (notice the difference in HP/TQ in the engines above)

Being in America, I'm stuck with what they offer here.

Vans and trucks have had the options of diesel for a long time, yet it's still less than 10% if that article you posted is correct. That seems to tell me that I would be better off going with gas.

Looking at the ProMaster, the diesel engine is $4,000 more, not a big deal. But if it's going to cost me more in maintenance and not give me good enough savings on mileage, will I screw myself buying it?

The other people who have asked this same question when choosing vehicles seem to say that gasoline is better. I see a lot of companies using Transit Connects for their fleet service vehicles, so apparently cost savings is a big thing with them. But when choosing a full size van, it's almost always gasoline.

 

Why a van?

 

I think a full size high roof van that could be walked into is best for me.

 

I bought my first diesel in January. Truck had over 320,000 miles on it. It looks brand new. 2008 my. I will do my best to not go back. I think most people are shortsighted, they do not want to put the money out at the begining of a purchase. I have also noticed that diesel fuel pricing fluctuates less than gas.

Truck has a gvw of 11,200, plated for 12k. I bet I weigh over 9k without any gang box or extra material in the back. Drives like a ferari. I used to have a van with a big v8 gasser, this is worlds apart.

 

I bought my first diesel in January. Truck had over 320,000 miles on it. It looks brand new. 2008 my. I will do my best to not go back. I think most people are shortsighted, they do not want to put the money out at the begining of a purchase. I have also noticed that diesel fuel pricing fluctuates less than gas.

Truck has a gvw of 11,200, plated for 12k. I bet I weigh over 9k without any gang box or extra material in the back. Drives like a ferari. I used to have a van with a big v8 gasser, this is worlds apart.

:no: :laughing:

 

That same article stated:

•Lower lifetime cost. Belzowski's research on 2000- through 2011-model vehicles showed that diesels typically cost their owners about $3,000 to $6,000 less over three years, $4,000 to $16,000 less over five years.
Exceptions according to Belzowski's data: diesel versions of Ford F-250 and Ram heavy-duty pickups, which cost owners more than the gasoline models.

In any case, it's going to come down to what you expect to get out of this thing. I think it's really odd that vehicle that is meant to carry a load is FWD. It makes sense from an efficiency standpoint as far as fuel and power are concerned, but I'm having trouble wrapping my head around a work truck/van being FWD.

Just do the numbers. What's your typical commute? How heavy a load do you expect to carry? What's the average price of diesel been the past 5 years? How often do you expect to change vehicles?

Some companies have a new model truck/van every few years to keep their image fresh.

Is an all-new model the best way to go here? Parts may be more scarce, techs may not be as familiar with the drivetrain, etc. What are the alternatives if not this promaster?

 

Do your research and get educated on diesel before you dismiss it on the reasoning that since most vans and cars in America are gas, gas must be better.

You're turning a van into a mobile storage shop... it's going to have some serious weight. When it comes to weight, you need diesel, unless you want to pay out of pocket on gas. Gas can do it, but it takes A LOT more gas.

Plus a diesel engine will last forever. That's a fact. No diesel engine has died yet, since diesel engines were first made over a hundred years ago.

 

After spending mega bucks on a new van.... the last thing I want to hear is a bunch of marbles under the hood every time I come to a complete stop...

 

Do your research and get educated on diesel before you dismiss it on the reasoning that since most vans and cars in America are gas, gas must be better.

You're turning a van into a mobile storage shop... it's going to have some serious weight. When it comes to weight, you need diesel, unless you want to pay out of pocket on gas. Gas can do it, but it takes A LOT more gas.

Plus a diesel engine will last forever. That's a fact. No diesel engine has died yet, since diesel engines were first made over a hundred years ago.

Lol, diesel eng die all the time. And there more expensive to fix. I was a automotive mechanic for 8 years, seen many die. And you better look again at the fuel mileage, a unloaded 3/4 ton is only getting low 20 mpg. The reason lots of people use diesels, is for the high torque, high load capacity, high pulling capacity.... And so on. Also diesel used to be way cheaper then gasoline. You can get gas engines that give you the best of both worlds, like a ford 3.5 Ecco boost in the f150, or the 6.2 in the 3/4 tons.

 

Diesel is way better mileage. My Mitsubishi mightymax diesel gets 28 in town and its 4wd. That same truck in gas would be lucky to get 20 on the highway.

 

Gas is common and popular because it's the only choice for most... I bought my Ram 1500 with the gas engine, because they didn't make a diesel for it.

Otherwise, it's a no brainer to me. It's a bunch of cash up front (or financed/leased), but in the total cost of ownership, it's an simple business choice. Diesel can haul more while using less.

2014 will have a bunch of new models in diesel and I'm sure 2015 will be even more. The Ram 1500 will have a diesel option which is a kick in the balls, but who knew it was coming!

 

I'm not looking for a Ram 1500, I am going to be buying a van. Vans have always had diesel options. I'm still curious why so few vans are diesel, and I don't buy "because people are stupid". As I mentioned, I believe a lot of thought goes into fleet vehicles and their lifetime costs. If diesels were cheaper in the long run, why aren't they chosen more often?

As far as you keep saying that diesel will haul more, not in the vans I have looked at. The cargo weight ratings are the same.

 

Well the old ones anyway are filthy, they stink, and they are noisy.

I can't imagine the noise, stink, and filth in the air if everyone on my block were warming up this bs engine in -30.

 

Well the old ones anyway are filthy, they stink, and they are noisy.

I can't imagine the noise, stink, and filth in the air if everyone on my block were warming up this bs engine in -30.

The diesel will be able to move the weight of the promaster around much better than the gas engine, much like the sprinter. I don't think you can even buy a gas powered sprinter anymore, only diesel. A vehicle promaster size should push 25mpg highway with the diesel, well I bet the pen taster v6 will struggle to get 16 highway with a moderate load. I think the Ram has a lot of potential, and am really excited to see the execution. I think a small van (Nissan nv-200 or Ford transit connect) is going to be the next vehicle purchase, and then a couple years down the road replace the big van with a promaster, full sized transit, or whatever.

 

My diesel you can hardly tell its diesel (sprinter).

 

I was able to find a little bit more info on the ProMaster. It says that it's got a low step-in height thru the back and side doors because of the FWD that's like it's claim to fame. But the specs say it's 19" which is about the same as all other vans that I looked up. The odd thing is that the other vans like the NV had a step to use first so you're not just climbing up 19" up each time.

So I don't know if there's conflicting info or what.

 

....

 

that is NOT a fact.
"no diesel engine has died yet"? wtf?

No shiit Sherlock. :detective:

The Ram Promaster is a modified Fiat Ducato. They have produced more than 2.4 million Ducato's since 1981. Although they started with gasoline engines, they're all diesel now and have been for a long time.

The Ducato is the most common motorhome base used in Europe; with around two thirds of motorhomes using the Ducato base.

This is good, because an empty gasoline van isn't a good comparison.. but a loaded motorhome is. That's a lot of weight it's lugging around, much like what you'll load it to with electrical equipment and supplies. 67% of all european motorhomes are Ducatos?? That's significant.

Point being, it's a new thing for America.. a new product line. But it has stood the test of time in Europe, and it works. Unless Dodge totally screws it up, it should become a popular work platform. People just need to get used to the styling.

 

I own 4 diesels, two of them are 6.0 fords, looking past the $6k for egr cooler repair on the one (at 75k miles) and the $8k head gasket job for the other, deisel cost way more to operate in general. Fuel is more expensive which washes the mpg advantage and with the maintenance and extra cost of the engine up front.

I go with the gas v6 all day.

Only reason to get a diesel is if you tow or carry very heavy loads.

 

I raced a denali with my Cummins and smoked it bad.

 

....

 

no, its not. provided the engine they are using stays together.
do some research on forums looking for problems with the engine
in question before shooting the money gun. and make sure that
the engine group isn't being tweaked for the us market. that is
what happened to the navistar/ford 6.0 engine group. ford wanted
more power without fixing internals to accommodate it.
it didn't go well.

the reason i went with a diesel instead of gas was the weight i was
gonna haul... diesel will not drop off as much as gas milage under
heavy loads... at 10,500# i get 13 mpg in stop and go, and 21 mpg
freeway. the gas option in this van would be about 6 mpg and 12 mpg
respectively.

and that is with performance enhancements. i'm running about
100 hp and 150 ft lbs torque over stock. the milage went up when
i made the enhancements, unless i leave my foot buried, of course.

just understand that if you have a serious problem with a diesel,
the repairs will stagger you. buy the most comprehensive powertrain
warranty you can, with the longest milages that is offered.

:no:
the 6.0 problems are from euros trying to fit thier design into the american epa requirements. pre egr, etc = no problems. (7.3 = :thumbup:

For some reason Navistar hired european engineers

 

....

 

well, then why did you say it if it's bullchit?

as for the engine group in that van, it's a 3 liter with 175hp @400 ft lbs
of torque. and that is the biggest one they make.

before i dropped the money on one, i'd like to drive a fully loaded one
and see what performance is like. or not like. load it to 9,000 lbs and
see how well it does in stop and go.

It will act like a sprinter, since the sprinter diesel has similar hp/torque. The europeans have foumd the sweet spot for work van engines due to significantly higher fuel costs, so its not designed to tow 10,000 lbs. Just like a sprinter, it will handle a few thousand lbs payload and a small cargo trailer or what have you every once in a while, which is ideal for what Hackwork wants to do.

The 6.0l power stroke is hardly a good benchmark for diesels, as it is well known to be a piss poor design. Look at duramax diesels from 03- now or cummins from the same time period and they have waaaaaay fewer problems and cost of ownership. Plus, look at the sprinter diesel engines. They have an incredibly good track record with a pile of 200,000+ mile sprinters out there, getting low to mid 20s for fuel economy vs conventional American vans getting 12-15 mpg. 50-75% increase in fuel economy is gigantic, and shouldnt be ignored.

 

Whoever says diesels are cheaper to maintain has never had one. Almost every fleet out there will run on gasoline because the vehicle is $8k cheaper to begin with. That can buy you all the gas in the world. Diesels also break down...lots. Injector pumps, injectors, egr/exhaust all cost thousands to repair. Sure the engine block will last a long time, but it won't be free.

Buy a diesel if you need the power and torque, but don't buy it thinking it will be cheaper than a gas job. My dad is a mechanic for an 80 truck fleet at a mine up here and the gas pickups are much cheaper to look after. All the mines around here have only gas for this reason. They only start going diesel once they get into the 2 ton and up.

The smaller diesels in these little vans/cars are a different story because they are designed to be efficient and not for hauling. The savings may work out in the end, but I would do some number crunching first.

 

I gotta admit, all I see anymore are Sprinters and they all have diesels now I believe.

High roof vans are taking over bigtime, and for good reason.

If the diesel engines that they put into them could be reliable as well as fuel efficient, then it's definitely worth the $4K extra up front.

 

....

 

Ford should hurry up and release the full size Transit this year instead of waiting until next Summer

With all these high roof options, I can't see why anyone would buy a convention "crawl in and out" van again.

 

You talk a lot. I think you will never really buy a van.