It is illegal for 3rd year apprentices to do side work do you not care about liability did you lie to get the work or just not inform the customer about this

 

Lol. I'm a journeyman now. Got it in July 2018. I haven't updated my profile in a while.

 

Are you a registered electrical contractor , In BC they are coming down on guys doing side work Being a journeyman here doesn't allow you to hang out a shingle and charge others for contracting as they can not get permits.


The term side work automatically puts up warning signals



A person can face a Judge here and heavily fined

 

The old rule allowed you to install a ground plate at each building but you had to bond the neutral to it as well at each building.

That rule is no longer there in the 2018.

With the new code, The sub panel you installed must be bonded back at the main, you can’t do it the way you have done. The way you did it, there is no way for any fault current on the ground from the sub panel to make it back to the source except through the earth.

 

I never noticed this change, as the 2018 has yet to be adopted here in BC. And the more interesting topic on this section was the handling of the grounding/bonding within the meter base (insulated neutral bus).

I guess this means triplex will give way to quadplex in a rural situation, ie: main service building feeding other out-buildings on the property supplied by the same service.

 

Also, is there not a restriction in your province for new journeymen to start their own company?

Here it is minimum licenced for three years and you must pass the masters exam.

 

Also, is there not a restriction in your province for new journeymen to start their own company?

A FSR-B, which is all you need to start a residential company, only needs 1800 hrs (essentially a year) of eperience once you've got your CofQ.

 

Yep I believe in Ontario you do need a masters licence to do electrical work for others and accept payment.A fellow was fined 50,000.00 dollars and a short jail term for doing small jobs with out permits.The only way to receive permits is if you have a master designation.If you are doing sidejobs with out permits you are liable to fines.Same as in B.C. except instead of a masters licence you need a contractors licence and an F.S.R. number.

 

Putting people in jail for working... Considering the real evils of the world that could be dealt with, jailing someone for unlicensed work is another evil.

 

Actually Bcec, in Ontario you also have to have an electrical contractors license; for which having a masters is one of the requirements. But a masters license on its own isn’t sufficient.

 

Insurance companies here are asking for permits when buyers buy a new to them home. I guess they cant trust the real estate disclosures when asked if any non permitted work was done. because every seller is honest about that

 

And this thread is a perfect example of why there are rules to becoming an electrical contractor and for having jobs inspected so guys don’t go out on the side and wire sub panels without a proper ground.

 

I’ve known of a few electrical contractors in Alberta that are not master electricians and one of them wasn’t even journeyman. They “sub” off someone with theirs and get them to pull permits. Not saying it’s right but unfortunately it’s happening. Their work isn’t good either. I help doing another job from time to time and have came across outlet boxes not bonded, no vapour boot on attic pots (which is against local building code but they get away some how, even if IC rated), then just quality of work such as lights not in a line, different height gang boxes if on same stud (receptacle & tv outlet). I’d love to see the lack of needing a masters ticket corrected here.

 

You must pull a bond back to the main panel. What you have done is dangerous. With no path back to the source the overcurrent devices will not operate in the event of a fault.

As far as the meter base goes regarding the new code, the neutral conductor will be permitted to be bonded at the meter base a second time until the standard for manufacturing meter bases is updated and isolated neutral meter bases are available.

 

Isolated neutral kits for meter bases have been available for a long time. I have installed a few over the years where I had a disconnect before the meter. (Not residential)

I actually bought one last month, supplier carried it as a stock item in fact.

 

Just so I am clear on what you are saying…

For the new code (2018) are we grounding in the meter socket or bonding in the meter socket? If you are saying that there are isolation kits for meter sockets, then we are bonding the meter socket inside with the disconnect. Yet when we talk about multi-gang meter sockets we are grounding the meter socket and bonding the panels (disconnects) because the neutral in the multi-gang meter socket is not isolated.

I thought we were going to ground the meter socket (eliminating the isolation block) and bond the disconnects now in 2018. The issue being that the 10/32 screw in the meter socket is not rated for fault current so until further notice we would continue to ground the panel / disconnect as per current practice in single gang meter sockets. Further notice = until the manufactures find a way to solidly connect the neutral lug to the meter socket.

Edit - maybe I am confusing what you are saying to what is happing in this thread.

Cheers
John

 

You can do it either way, bond in the meter or bond in the panel. If you bond in the panel and your service is PVC, you must use an isolated neutral in the meter base and run a bond wire up to the base

Of course the 2018 has not been adopted in Ontario yet so we will see what happens when it does

 

I would assume that if you using steel, you either need to isolate the neutral in the meter socket or in the panel since they are connected via the steel. Right now we don't isolate the neutral in the meter socket, the same as a PVC.

In the case of this thread, what do you think the expectation will be for overhead? Pulling a bond wire up the stack on both ends?

I have the CEC handbook, but have not studied it at all.

Cheers
John

 

I would assume that if you using steel, you either need to isolate the neutral in the meter socket or in the panel since they are connected via the steel. Right now we don't isolate the neutral in the meter socket, the same as a PVC.

In the case of this thread, what do you think the expectation will be for overhead? Pulling a bond wire up the stack on both ends?

I have the CEC handbook, but have not studied it at all.

Cheers
John

Yes. It is The same as if you were feeding a building that housed livestock. You would run a bond from the main out to the sub panel.


As for the service bonding changes,
Here are some pics from 2018 CEC 10-210 in app. B for how to bond the service and meter.

 

You guys have got it right. The old method for residential single meter bases will be acceptable untill meter bases are manufactured with an approved bonding screw, and a neutral bar with an extra lug for a grounding conductor.

 

@eddy current interesting that those pics are not in the Part 1 or the handbook.

So Ok then, I am understanding about the service requirements. I was getting confused because of the thread it was in I guess. I get that you would need to bring a separate bonding wire up the stack... I was trying to figure out why all this meter socket stuff and isolated blocks in the meter socket, etc for a sub panel.

Looking forward to the new code update seminars...

Cheers
John

 

Those pics are from Appendix B in part 1 of CEC 2018. Also, in the handbook under 10-210 there is an explanation and they refer you back to the pics in Appendix B of part 1.

 

Appendix B, might as well been Section 13!

Thanks @eddy current!

Cheers
John

 

Call me kooky, but I think it's kinda stupid to make sure any fault current goes into the building even when the fault is on the exterior of the building.

 

The fault goes back to the source, not just into the earth. It has to have a path back to the source somehow.

That is why (in Canada) the bond wire is sized for the load, and the grounding electrode conductor never needs to be larger than a #6.

 

If i'm not mistaken, the new code only requires grounding at the service entry. after that, you remove the ground lug and bond to to neutral. That includes a garage. There's no need to ground the garage.

 

No. The neutral and bond must be isolated at the garage. you bond the neutral and ground together only once, at the service.

 

I know all that (plus you'll need a business licence from your city/regional district; a provincal and federal tax account, etc.); but it looked like eddy_current was asking how much time a person needs to be journeyman berfore they they can go into business.

And yes a FSR-C technically is the lowest tier but the exam and experience requirements are the same for a B so why would you knee cap yourself with a C ticket? IE: I don't know anyone with a C ticket.

 

Okay.I did'nt mean to jump all over you there but I have had many guys tell me that they are writing their F.S.R. so they can take out their own permits.I do though wonder that why if the B and C tickets were the same exam why even have a C ticket classification.I always thought the fact that the C exam was easy,it contributed to making the new house wiring so competitive and unprofitable.It seems back aways that a lot of guys couldnt pass the B ticket with out a lot of studying.When you are limited to 200amps single phase its very limited and kneecapped for sure.

 

I heard a rumour a few years ago they want to eliminate the c ticket




master fsr b rse

 

Actually after reading B.C.technical safety site it looks like there will eventually be an A master a B master and even a C master.